More "divided by a common language" stuff

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Re: More "divided by a common language" stuff

Post by david_h »

Nanohedron wrote:... or at best a dim memory from Bible readings in Sunday school.
It's the Elgar piece, probably with some LP box-set notes, that had me knowing about the mighty hunter. If asked yesterday I would have guessed Greek or Germanic mythology.

His Wikipedia page is fascinating.
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Re: More "divided by a common language" stuff

Post by Nanohedron »

david_h wrote:
Nanohedron wrote:... or at best a dim memory from Bible readings in Sunday school.
It's the Elgar piece, probably with some LP box-set notes, that had me knowing about the mighty hunter. If asked yesterday I would have guessed Greek or Germanic mythology.

His Wikipedia page is fascinating.
Elgar's less popularly well known outside of the UK, so I'll go out on a limb and guess that the original inspiration for the Elmer Fudd reference was most probably the biblical one. At that time in the US, any churchgoing sort (and that would have been just about everyone) would have been familiar with the name even if the story didn't stick in the memory. And apparently it didn't, because it all went astray from there.

There's a small town in Minnesota called Nimrod, with a population of 69 as of the last census. The smart alecks would say small wonder; people are obviously too embarrassed to live in a town with a name like that. The citizens probably do get a fair amount of grief over it.
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Re: More "divided by a common language" stuff

Post by Nanohedron »

Was watching a foodie show segment about an English-cuisine restaurant in the US; all the iconic items like fish and chips, roast beef, Yorkshire pudding, etc. are served up in veddy English fashion*, and the place does a brisk business. It's owned and run by an Englishman who missed his home fare - hence this little bit of England in the States - and doubtless the staff have ample exposure to Right Pond pronunciation standards, because the owner's usually there, and hands-on. Apparently there's a bit of tone-deafness on our part, though: a server announced a dish that included "Yorkshyre pudding".

We're incorrigible.




* Well, they do make a concession for those Yanks who will absolutely die without Tartar sauce for their fish. The very idea.
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Re: More "divided by a common language" stuff

Post by Claybury »

[/quote]
There's a small town in Minnesota called Nimrod, with a population of 69 as of the last census. The smart alecks would say small wonder; people are obviously too embarrassed to live in a town with a name like that. The citizens probably do get a fair amount of grief over it.[/quote]

Nimrod is a stop on the Crow Wing River. A state waterway and a nice canoe venue that starts with the eleventh Crow wing Lake and meets the Mississippi near Little Falls. Nice trip if you have time.

I grew up as a young lad in a family uprooted from Essex and transplanted into the north central US. This made me bi-lingual. English and a strange mix of American/Scandinavian/German. Honestly to this day I am torn between the need to invade, raid, or plant a garden.
I can say when in grade school it is best to lie and say ice cream is your favorite desert when the teacher asks. Being honest and saying you like a spotted dick with golden syrup will result in get a face to face with the principle. It is a surreal experience to have your parents try to explain pudding to an righteously angry Norwegian.

Also note early on that in America saying something is bugging you or someone is a bugger refers to someone being annoying. Like a bug or stinging insect. Not something anatomically disturbing. This will prevent more awkward moments.
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Re: More "divided by a common language" stuff

Post by Nanohedron »

Claybury wrote:Also note early on that in America saying something is bugging you or someone is a bugger refers to someone being annoying. Like a bug or stinging insect. Not something anatomically disturbing. This will prevent more awkward moments.
Then there's that. It also conveys a difficult or trying situation: Upon asking about a repair, for instance, you might hear, "It was a real bugger," which is a pretty commonplace usage. Personally, I'm much less likely to use the noun "bugger" in direct reference to people, and instead use it to describe my time with them. No idea why; I'm guessing it's just the way I heard it most, and followed suit.

Had my first canoeing experience as a youth with fellow Scouts on the Crow Wing Water Trail; we took a few days at it, so there was plenty of time to master the craft, and it made an avid canoeist out of me. The wild rice stands out most in that distant memory.
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Re: More "divided by a common language" stuff

Post by Nanohedron »

Okay, here's one for the Right Pond: What does the abbreviation "Pc" mean? I was reading the news and happened upon a UK article which unfortunately didn't provide the context I needed to flesh "Pc" out to any satisfaction. Google's no help either, because it's not recognizing the difference in upper and lower cases and since I'm in the States, surely I must mean personal computers or political correctness even when I typed out "Pc UK law". I'm stuck.

**************************

Oh, wait: probationary constable?
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Re: More "divided by a common language" stuff

Post by Katharine »

Claybury wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 4:46 pm

Also note early on that in America saying something is bugging you or someone is a bugger refers to someone being annoying. Like a bug or stinging insect. Not something anatomically disturbing. This will prevent more awkward moments.
[/quote]

Honestly, that was my first experience of this word, as heard used by family (who clearly didn't mean it to mean anything bad enough that they didn't feel it was fine to use in front of a small child, and had I used it myself at an old enough age I don't know that I would've been reprimanded). As in, "that bugger cut me off when the light turned green" or "it was a bugger mowing the whole lawn today when it was 90 degrees out." (In fact, I rather get the impression it may be a substitution for a worse word in both cases.)

I've never in my life heard anyone refer to something/someone "bugging" them in any way except as a synonym for "bothering." As in, "my car is still making that noise and it's bugging me" or "today my boss was bugging me to get that report done." (However, "buggering" is a different story, but in my area I'm not sure how many people would even know what it meant if they heard it.)

Perhaps sometimes maybe a case of something that is used so often that many people have lost the sense of what it means and now consider it just a word rather than a word with a definition, and hence it is not as "bad" as it may once have been considered?
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Re: More "divided by a common language" stuff

Post by fatmac »

Re Pc

Many abbreviations have different meanings dependent on the context in which it is used, even we have to read between the lines to understand what some journalists mean! :D
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Re: More "divided by a common language" stuff

Post by benhall.1 »

Nanohedron wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:16 pm Okay, here's one for the Right Pond: What does the abbreviation "Pc" mean? I was reading the news and happened upon a UK article which unfortunately didn't provide the context I needed to flesh "Pc" out to any satisfaction. Google's no help either, because it's not recognizing the difference in upper and lower cases and since I'm in the States, surely I must mean personal computers or political correctness even when I typed out "Pc UK law". I'm stuck.

**************************

Oh, wait: probationary constable?
It's not "Probationary constable"; it's "Police constable", i.e. an ordinary Bobby.
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Re: More "divided by a common language" stuff

Post by Nanohedron »

benhall.1 wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:36 am It's not "Probationary constable"; it's "Police constable", i.e. an ordinary Bobby.
Aha! Thank you. Now it makes sense. :)
fatmac wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:59 am... even we have to read between the lines to understand what some journalists mean! :D
In which event I submit that a journalist in those straits is entirely in the wrong profession. To be clear, I don't mean the one who wrote the article I happened upon; their intended audience was clearly British and accustomed to British communication norms, so this Yank must necessarily catch up if it matters. That's fair.
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Re: More "divided by a common language" stuff

Post by pancelticpiper »

One of the more subtle language things that jumps out to my eye is the use, or non-use, of "s" in certain situations.

I have no idea if the English usages are common or not; I've seen them many times, anyhow.

So in the USA you take a math test rather than a maths test. Oh, and the test-giver says "don't show you work" rather than "don't show your working".

Likewise in the USA you take a drug test and a blood test rather than a drugs test or bloods test.

On the other hand in the USA you arrange for accommodations for your family rather than accommodation (in the sense of lodgings, without the "s" you're arranging for special dietary needs etc.)

Then there's electricity in "we have no electricity" instead of "we have no electric".

Here a politician "called it time" rather "called time".

And something you can see is "in view" rather than "on view". (We would use "on view" meaning "on display" as part of an exhibit.)

One of the most interesting differences is what's called "verb phrase ellipsis".
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Re: More "divided by a common language" stuff

Post by benhall.1 »

That's an interesting point on the 's's Richard. You're not quite right on a few of them though. On a maths test, the examiner might say, "Don't show your workings". They wouldn't say "Don't show your working".

In the UK, one might take a "drugs test" but it would always be a "blood test" although taking this test (by the phlebotomist, as opposed to from the perspective of the person being tested) is sometimes referred to as "doing (or taking) (the) bloods".

You're right that "accommodation" is always singular when referring to ... well accommodation. Funnily enough, "accommodations" would mean something similar to what you describe as "accommodation" in the States. In the UK the plural would be some sort of allowances being made.

We use both "we have no electricity" and "we have no electric". We also use both "in view" and "on view", although they mean something slightly different. "In view" would mean visible, whereas "on view" would mean on display.
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Re: More "divided by a common language" stuff

Post by fatmac »

One thing that does bug me, is the wrong usage of then & than, I never saw it until a couple of years ago....
than
/ðan,ð(ə)n/
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conjunction
conjunction: than

1.
used to introduce the second element in a comparison.
"they go out less than they did when they first moved to Paris"
2.
used in expressions introducing an exception or contrast.
"they observe rather than act"
3.
used in expressions indicating one thing happening immediately after another.
"scarcely was the work completed than it was abandoned"

preposition
preposition: than

1.
introducing the second element in a comparison.
"he was much smaller than his son"
2.
apart from; except.
"he claims not to own anything other than his home"

Origin
Old English than(ne), thon(ne), thænne, originally the same word as then.
then
/ðɛn/
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adverb
adverb: then

1.
at that time; at the time in question.
"I was living in Cairo then"
h
Similar:
at that time

at that point
in those days
at that point in time
at that moment
on that occasion
2.
after that; next; afterwards.
"she won the first and then the second game"
h
Similar:
next
after that
afterwards
subsequently
later

also; in addition.
"I'm paid a generous salary, and then there's the money I've made at the races"
h
Similar:
in addition

also
besides
as well
additionally
on top of that
over and above that
moreover
furthermore
what's more
to boot

too

3.
in that case; therefore.
"if you do what I tell you, then there's nothing to worry about"
h
Similar:
in that case
that being the case
that being so
under those circumstances

it follows that
used at the end of a sentence to emphasize an inference being drawn.
"so you're still here then"
used to finish off a conversation.
"see you in an hour then"

Phrases
then and there — immediately.
"she made up her mind then and there"
Origin
Old English thænne, thanne, thonne, of Germanic origin; related to Dutch dan and German dann, also to that and the.
Translate then to
Use over time for: then
Definitions from Oxford Languages
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Re: More "divided by a common language" stuff

Post by benhall.1 »

fatmac wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:20 am One thing that does bug me, is the wrong usage of then & than, I never saw it until a couple of years ago....
Ah. To be fair, that's just ignorance. I don't think it has anything to do with left pond/right pond stuff.

One thing that does have something to do with left pond/right pond stuff is the awful phrase, "I could care less," which means the opposite of what is intended, but is commonly used on the leftward side of the pond.
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Re: More "divided by a common language" stuff

Post by Nanohedron »

benhall.1 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:57 am One thing that does have something to do with left pond/right pond stuff is the awful phrase, "I could care less," which means the opposite of what is intended, but is commonly used on the leftward side of the pond.
True, and it is a blot upon what would otherwise be the rustic beauty of our dialect. Corrective examples - which I and other right-minded folk have made aplenty - seem to make no dent. It's a mystery. It's probably due to loyalty to the knee at which one learns something even if it's demonstrably erroneous, I suppose ... but working that out takes thinking, not to mention a commitment to reason. People - and not just Yanks - would rather blurt.
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