Moments in Culturally Promotional Fashion

[dwest]

This is a fair point. The target audience really isn't the native Scots, is it. It's not like they need to learn their own words and pronunciation and stuff.

I guess it's really directed at Scots who migrated to the four corners of the globe during the great Scottish Diasporran?

Sure.

Don't see no sporrans, obviously not part of the Diasporran.

[Nanohedron]

That is way cool. It would have helped in the picture if there was a beach rather than a dessert.

Over there they call them "puddings".
Though I didn't spot any spotted dick
in the pic.

All by design: note the untraditionally low hem. If you want to hide your treats away - be they blotchy or no - to avoid being accosted by importuning pudding-fanciers, the more to your toggery the better.

[Gobae]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetic_apostrophe

Interesting. I'm surprised they don't make any mention of those apostrophes getting used in Southern (US) words. "Y'all" is the most common but there's plenty of others; it's not just limited to Scottish.

[Nanohedron]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetic_apostrophe

Interesting. I'm surprised they don't make any mention of those apostrophes getting used in Southern (US) words. "Y'all" is the most common but there's plenty of others; it's not just limited to Scottish.

Southern? To extend the reasoning further, how about English in general, like "haven't" or "I'll"? But none of those are at issue - never were - and Southern US spelling had no previous history of an ancient, fully literate, and orthographically consistent custom using no such apostrophes, so that the issue would even come up; in American letters, the apostrophe or lack of it in "y'all" carries no readily identifiable political or class overtones one way or the other. This is an issue of the influences of one country's form of English overshadowing another's. So I think you can't have really read the article; the very concept of "apologetic apostrophe" is an entirely Scottish one that arose solely in reference to its own language, and no one else's. Here's a quote from the article to recap and hopefully elucidate the point:

The practice, unknown in Older Scots, was introduced in the 18th century by writers such as Allan Ramsay, Robert Fergusson and Robert Burns as part of a process of Anglicisation. It produced an easily understood spurious Scots that was very popular with English readers and on the English stage. It was also sometimes forced on reluctant authors by publishers desirous of a wider circulation for their books. The custom unfortunately gave the effect of Scots being a divergent or inferior form of English rather than a separate language system.

[Bolds mine]

I hope that was helpful. All that said, as Emm pointed out it does make Scots more readily legible to those of us unused to its original orthography. But that's all. It's like training wheels.

Enough of this seriousness. I would rather talk about the tragedy of haggis abuse, or something.

[dwest]

There are not true Scotsmen anyway so it's all moot point.

[Nanohedron]

There are not true Scotsmen anyway so it's all moot point.

Sure, just like there are no true Americans, Irish, or trolling popinjays.

[dwest]

There are not true Scotsmen anyway so it's all moot point.

Sure, just like there are no true Americans, Irish, or trolling popinjays.

The existence of "true Scotsmen" has been a discussion of debate for decades at least.

[Nanohedron]

There are not true Scotsmen anyway so it's all moot point.

Sure, just like there are no true Americans, Irish, or trolling popinjays.

The existence of "true Scotsmen" has been a discussion of debate for decades at least.

Old news apropos of nothing, and furthermore it's a spurious argument that confuses cultural ethnicity with the odd idea that each country should present a homogenous genetic monolith. Show me a "true Russian". Show me a "true Morroccan". Show me a "true Spaniard". It's a non-issue except to, dare I say it, racists of convenience. I'm just sayin'.

[dwest]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

[Nanohedron]

I know Japanese who can't stand nattō. Who is the true Wajin, then? Those who like it, or those who do not? Does this mean there are no true Japanese? I wouldn't ask them, because they won't necessarily agree depending on the question, but then they're unlikely to make ridiculous pronouncements about it, either, being generally given to circumspection (by the logic of your article, I suppose the existence of those that aren't so retiring is evidence that says that there aren't any true Japanese, then - and may I say that that is a foolishly pointless conclusion meaning nothing, if ever you wanted one). Nevertheless it's a widely-held assumption - not without reason - that Gaijin aren't supposed to be able to stand nattō - but I like it very much, to their amazement. So am I a not-true Gaijin, then? Does this mean there are no true Gaijin? Just because someone unthinkingly makes sweeping statements about their own or someone else's supposedly defining characteristics, it does not point to a truth that makes any serious difference except to those who would jump on it in the desire to discount the validity of the very existence of a people. What is your point, if you have one at all other than indulging in the pleasure of leaving a turd in the puchbowl of seemingly every thread you post to? If you're taking the presumption upon yourself to educate us, this isn't the way to go about it, you know. Time and place are everything. In the context of this thread, you merely come off as an anti-Scots apologist of no otherwise discernible stripe who must have his little say. You might as well come clean and own up to your agenda, be it the petty need to deny the existence of whatever nationality despite evidence, or the more general one of merely turding in punchbowls as the case may be. Neither one is an admirable character trait.

And as you yourself have pointed out, you aren't saying anything new.

[Katharine]

I just got a gift from a friend returning from Scotland. It's a beach towel:

The oxymoron of Scottish beach towels as a general concept aside, I don't go to the beach. Should I otherwise be caught dead in it?

Yes, but only if you pleat it properly.

That is way cool. It would have helped in the picture if there was a beach rather than a dessert.

What - is he standing on a humongous crumb cake, or something?

And if so, why's he just standing there???

[mutepointe]

No Shoes
No Shirt
No Service

He needs one of these.

[Peter Duggan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apologetic_apostrophe

Interesting. I'm surprised they don't make any mention of those apostrophes getting used in Southern (US) words. "Y'all" is the most common but there's plenty of others; it's not just limited to Scottish.

Southern? To extend the reasoning further, how about English in general, like "haven't" or "I'll"? But none of those are at issue - never were - and Southern US spelling had no previous history of an ancient, fully literate, and orthographically consistent custom using no such apostrophes, so that the issue would even come up; in American letters, the apostrophe or lack of it in "y'all" carries no readily identifiable political or class overtones one way or the other. This is an issue of the influences of one country's form of English overshadowing another's. So I think you can't have really read the article; the very concept of "apologetic apostrophe" is an entirely Scottish one that arose solely in reference to its own language, and no one else's. Here's a quote from the article to recap and hopefully elucidate the point:

The practice, unknown in Older Scots, was introduced in the 18th century by writers such as Allan Ramsay, Robert Fergusson and Robert Burns as part of a process of Anglicisation. It produced an easily understood spurious Scots that was very popular with English readers and on the English stage. It was also sometimes forced on reluctant authors by publishers desirous of a wider circulation for their books. The custom unfortunately gave the effect of Scots being a divergent or inferior form of English rather than a separate language system.

See also the section on Legitimate use of the apostrophe in Scots for elision and contractions (the point being that usage here is the same as any other language but Scots words like those we've been discussing are complete without the 'apologetic apostrophe')!

[MTGuru]

I dunno, Peter ... Between haggis, Irn-Bru, and Billy Connolly, the Scots have a lot to atone for. Seems to me that apostrophes are the least you can do.

[JackCampin]

I have one of those.

Compared with a kilt, it wraps the wrong way round - a real kilt is wound clockwise round your waist.