CP: New Wood- Granadillo

[OBrien]

Granadillo is from Central America and is used to make marimba bars. It is also an excellent wood for whistles. It is dense and hard and takes a great polish. When I first heard the name, before I saw it, I thought it might be another spelling of grenadilla, also know as African blackwood. I have a very limited supply, but I will order more, if there is interest. The whistle on the left is Indian ebony, also not spoken-for yet.

Thanks for looking.

[benhall.1]

So, according to Wikipedia at any rate, "Granadillo" is a name used either for cocus or for cocobolo. Is that right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granadillo

[Loren]

Nope, it is neither. Yet another wikifail.

[Loren]

“Granadillo” is the common name most frequently applied to the quality hardwood that comes from several species within the Platymiscium genus. While there are 19 different types of Platymiscium, the 3 most prominent ones on the market are Platymiscium yacatanum, Platymiscium pinnatum and Platymiscium pleiostchyum. Each of these have overlapping growing regions and offer a slightly different experience. All are quality hardwood providing exceptional character, color and tonality.

Granadillo is prized for its reddish brown coloring that routinely includes blacks, violets and oranges mixed in; it has proven itself time and again as a premiere choice for both musical instruments and furniture alike. Granadillo responds very well to turning and emits a caramel like scent when worked. It is also an excellent alternative to cocobolo for those who do not wish to deal with the excessive oil and potential allergic reactions that true rosewoods sometimes induce. Typical straight grain patterns with some irregularity, it is also known to have frequent figuring. As with all Platymiscium species, the heartwood is also extremely resistant to fungi and termite attack, which is due to its content of secondary metabolites.

P. yucatanum: Granadillo that is indigenous to the Yucatan peninsula of southern Mexico, Belize and northern Guatemala and is known for more saturated color tones and frequent figuring in the logs. Found to be slightly denser than the other granadillo species.

P. pinnatum: Granadillo that is most common on today’s market due to its abundance and wide availability. Sometimes misrepresented as “Amazon Rosewood”, it is not a true rosewood but rather is a Platymiscium that is indigenous from the amazon basin up thru to the lower portion of Central America. On average, this granadillo carries more of a reddish tone throughout the logs.

P. pleiostachyum: Granadillo that carries the reputation of being the best quality in the Platymiscium genus. Unfortunately, this reputation as also caused pleiostachyum to be severely exploited over the last few decades and consequently is now listed as endangered in the IUCN Redlist of Threatened Species including being CITES Appendix 2 Restricted. Due to this CITES status, we do not sale or ship this species outside the United States. If you’re looking for the absolute best in granadillo material, then this is it. Originally indigenous to Costa Rica, it is now virtually extinct in this country due to illegal logging and exploitation. It can still be found in El Salvador and Nicaragua and legally sourced from these countries.

[OBrien]

Thanks for the info Loren. I looked it up on WP and suspected that the connection to cocobolo was wrong.

By the way, the whistle in the photo was snapped up within minutes of my posting, but I'm starting a list for ones that aren't done yet.

[Feadoggie]

Nice looking whistle(s), David!

Thanks Loren for the detailed info. I've thought it was a common name used for several species that might be hard to distinguish from each other once timbered out.

I have a fair bit of what was sold to me as Granadillo on the shelf. It is a nice wood, somewhat darker than David's whistle. The billets I have turned are indistiguishable from other billets I have which were purchased under the name Yucatan Rosewood. Yucatan Rosewood is supposed to be a dalbergia, dalbergia tucurensis AFAIK. So I find myself basically being skeptical about some wood identifications. Best to get to know your suppliers I suppose.

Feadoggie

[chas]

I got a half-dozen new-to-me woods in a few months ago, one of which is granadillo. Glad to see that it turns and finishes up nicely.

[Feadoggie]

Chas, I am sure you will like your results with Granadillo.

Here's a video, for those who may be interested, on Granadillo which was made by one of the suppliers I buy from. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loB-C5qY5-c

And here's one with a short visual comparison of some cocobolo blanks versus granadillo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj7U9DWqOZY

It bothers me that Rocky refers to granadillo as a cousin of cocbolo. While they may have visual similarities they are obvoiusly unrelated species.

Feadoggie

[ytliek]

Does this Granadillo wood change color over time and with oiling?

[Feadoggie]

I don't know that it does personally. The pieces I have works with were fairly dark to begin with. I have read reports from various luthiers that the lighter, more reddish examples, will darken over time. Some makers use UV inhibitors in their finishes to mitigate the effect. Many woods darken with age for a variety of reasons.

The only whistle I have owned that seemed to darken due to oiling was a whistle of Yellowheart made by Glenn Schultz. It took the oil in some spots more heavily than others and the result was a somewhat blotchy coloring. Good whistle nonetheless.

Have you had woods change color from oiling. ytliek? Anyone else? The type of oil you use might matter.

Feadoggie

[benhall.1]

It bothers me that Rocky refers to granadillo as a cousin of cocbolo. While they may have visual similarities they are obvoiusly unrelated species.

Hang on. I thought "Granadillo", as you guys understand it, is a Platymiscium. that would be a member of the Dalbergieae, right? So pretty closely related to any Dalbergia? Or am I missing something?

You can tell I'm out of my depth here, but interested in the subject, all the same ...

[ytliek]

Have you had woods change color from oiling. ytliek? Anyone else? The type of oil you use might matter.

No, I haven't noticed any of the wood whistles I have change color. I only use almond oil with a couple drops vitE so far for maintenance.

I'm just curious... and the color change wouldn't matter that much as long as the tone/sound remained unchanged, or does that occur as well?

Wood... beautiful... yummy!

[brewerpaul]

Some woods change, sometimes pretty quickly. Cocobolo is one. Often, when I first machine it, the color is purplish. By the time it has rested a month or more, it's starting to turn orange/brown. Exposure to sun speeds this up. I have a Glenn Schultz Cocobolo flute that I got probably 10 years ago and it's nearly black!
Purpleheart changes-- it can lose that pretty purple and go pretty brownish. I recently did some tweaking on an older Bocote whistle of mine and it was quite dark brown.

[Feadoggie]

Hang on. I thought "Granadillo", as you guys understand it, is a Platymiscium. that would be a member of the Dalbergieae, right? So pretty closely related to any Dalbergia? Or am I missing something?

You can tell I'm out of my depth here, but interested in the subject, all the same ...

Yeah, I am not a botanist or anything close to that either. I do know platimiscium is a dalbergioid. I also don't know what that might actually mean. The issue for me has to do with whether the wood is know to cause allergies or not. Platymiscium is not known as a wood allergy threat AFAIK. Woods specifically called dalbergia carry a higher risk - some more than others. Cocobolo is well known as a risk. Yucatan Rosewood is less so. The question for me is whether a piece of wood sold as Granadillo is actually a platymiscium or another wood. A couple of reputable wood suppliers have indicated to me that Granadillo is a common name, not a scientific name, that may be applied to woods of several species growing in the same region. Once cut they might have similar visual characteristics.

A guitar or furniture maker may not care about the difference. They may be interested in color, grain, density and stability. So it might be fine for their purposes to consider one wood a substitute for another. They'll likely coat the finished product with sealers, fillers and lacquers. Flutes and whistles are bit different.

CITES restrictions just add another layer of confusion on all this to me. What motivates the guy cutting down the tree to use the proper scientific name?

Feadoggie

[an seanduine]

Feadoggie: A story from a long time ago, in a distant, and far more paisley galaxy. . . .

CITES restrictions just add another layer of confusion on all this to me. What motivates the guy cutting down the tree to use the proper scientific name?

An acquaintance, a very free spirit, was a free-lance wood harvester in the Yucatan, Belize, Guatemala area. One year he was moved to actually
get all the right papers to harvest Mahogany in Guatemala. This took several weeks and a roll of cash hanging around various Ministries. . .
When he and his current lady were in the deep forest preparing to harvest some mahogany they were accosted by a group of camo wearing
individuals bearing AK-47's challenging his right to the wood. . .As he was reaching into the back of the flatbed to flourish his hard gotten paperwork, something the men said clued him into the fact that they were some sort of liberation front rather than government types. His hand, which was just about on the paperwork suddenly switched to a roll of cash in the back of the cab. After a suitable negotiation and some shared rum, a deal was struck. . . .

Bob