Chinese Dizi is the same thing as an Irish flute!

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meoweth
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Chinese Dizi is the same thing as an Irish flute!

Post by meoweth »

I showed my teacher the tin whistle I got from ebay and he said that the Chinese Dizi (traverse bamboo flute) with 6 holes has the same fingering chart as that.
If I were you guys, I would try to get a Dizi and see how that sounds. It's got a vibrating membrane that amplifies the volume. Just an FYI for you guys!
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Re: Chinese Dizi is the same thing as an Irish flute!

Post by dspmusik »

i was hoping so. is this confirmed from anyone who has both? i've almost ordered a dizi a few times for this reason.
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Re: Chinese Dizi is the same thing as an Irish flute!

Post by Peter Duggan »

Piano, harpsichord, clavichord, organ, piano accordion, harmonium etc. are all the same thing too! :wink:
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Re: Chinese Dizi is the same thing as an Irish flute!

Post by O'Brien »

It's true. I have a couple of dizi. They came with little packets of paper for the membrane hole, which is about halfway between the mouthpiece opening and the top finger hole. You moisten the membrane opening and lay a square of paper over it. It's got a loud, buzzing, not unpleasant, tone.
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Re: Chinese Dizi is the same thing as an Irish flute!

Post by Feadoggie »

From the little I know the dizi generally plays a diatonic major scale and the fingering on those are the same. But there seem to be a couple things to look for which may vary from our simple system fingering nomenclatures. It seems some dizi are named for the note sounded with the XXXOOO fingering as opposed to the XXXXXX fingering. So one of our D instruments, where D is played XXXXXX, might be called a G instrument, fingered XXXOOO. If you have the sounding length of the flute you can figure things out. The physics is the same after all. There are a lot of major diatonic flutes around the world.

Also there are other dizi with special tunings like minor pentatonic scale flutes. Similar but different. So you may have to read the fine print when purchasing or at least examine the photos and use some logic in determining the scale. I am not sure what the traditional ancient tuning of the flute was.

The dizi is a horizontal or transverse flute more akin to the simple system flute like the Irish flute. Another flute from the region is the xiao. This is a vertical or end blown flute with a notch blowing edge. So they are held more like a whistle but the bore seems to be narrower on the whole. While that is what I observe in videos those appearances may however be due to physical construction differences. The xiao can also play a major scale but with a slightly different fingering from our simple system. While I am sure there are major diatonic versions out there tuned similar to a whistle our familiar fingering scheme is apparently not the norm. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-I1CFa5T7I

Of course I'm no expert. Google is your friend. Perhaps one of our astute Chinese members can enlighten us further.

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Re: Chinese Dizi is the same thing as an Irish flute!

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Re: Chinese Dizi is the same thing as an Irish flute!

Post by meoweth »

Yes, the dizi and xiao are the main flutes from China, and actually where the irish flute evolved from. Almost everyone back in the day played the dizi, and only a few plays the xiao since the difficulty is a magnitude higher due to the notch blown style. However, ive come to love the sound of the xiao. And he's right about the scale its XXX000 for the scale here, not XXXXXX which is what we're used to.

Now if you want to get a dizi, I dont think amazon or ebay is the right place. Taobao is the best place, and here is the search term, sorted by most popular sales per month, as you can see for $10 you can get a decent quality dizi. Now you'll probably need to find a company who'll order stuff on taobao and mail it to you, they'll want to charge a fee for this. I cant give you a recommendation as I dont use it, but just google "taobao agent".

Best selling dizi:
http://s.taobao.com/search?spm=a230r.1. ... J_relative

Example of dizi song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwhWiShq3E4

Best selling xiao:
http://s.taobao.com/search?spm=a230r.1. ... J_relative

Example of xiao song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABOxTtxJxNw

Bawu flute (also great, easiest to play, but only ~1 octave)
http://s.taobao.com/search?spm=a230r.1. ... J_relative

Example of bawu/hulusi (same thing different look) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecuUm4hNRFs

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Re: Chinese Dizi is the same thing as an Irish flute!

Post by meoweth »

Almost forgot this is an irish music forum.

Morning breeze of ireland on xiao:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK_imtse5iU

same song on bawu (hulusi), although not that good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQmiulXOsX0
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Re: Chinese Dizi is the same thing as an Irish flute!

Post by Peter Duggan »

meoweth wrote:and actually where the irish flute evolved from.
Wild conjecture stated as fact! :boggle:
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Re: Chinese Dizi is the same thing as an Irish flute!

Post by MTGuru »

Peter Duggan wrote:
meoweth wrote:and actually where the irish flute evolved from.
Wild conjecture stated as fact! :boggle:
I knew someone who insisted that all Irish music is really Italian because the cello was invented in Italy. About the best one could say was "Hmmm ... OK", then back away slowly ... :lol:
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Re: Chinese Dizi is the same thing as an Irish flute!

Post by Nanohedron »

The famous Jiahu crane bone flutes of China are dated at around 9,000 years. That's pretty old. BUT: the equally famous bone flute found in Divje Babe, Slovenia, is dated at around 43,100 years of age. That's over four and a half times as old, and a good argument for woodwinds as being descended from European technology (maybe even Neanderthal, but that of course is a matter of debate). But to put Irish or whatever instruments into that genealogy, whether Chinese or European, is not really saying anything. It's not that simple.

What we should remember is something most fascinating: that human technologies like the bow, pottery, and others appear in the archaeological record to have sprung up spontaneously in different parts of the world with no hope of easy contact between such far-flung societies to account for the swift, nearly instantaneous, yet unaccountably near-universal appearance of them when they arose. That wind instruments could do so as well - that is, have no one place of origination - is entirely credible to me, the human phenomenon being what it is.

It is generally accepted, however, that the transverse flute design appears to have originated eastwards of Europe. How far east, though, is unclear; but it's true that China is a good candidate so far (article 3.4.1 of the PDF). But at 433 BC, that's a bit of a johnny-come-lately. And it sure ain't no dizi. :wink:
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Re: Chinese Dizi is the same thing as an Irish flute!

Post by Peter Duggan »

Nanohedron wrote:It is generally accepted, however, that the transverse flute design appears to have originated eastwards of Europe. How far east, though, is unclear; but it's true that China is a good candidate so far (article 3.4.1 of the PDF). But at 433 BC, that's a bit of a johnny-come-lately. And it sure ain't no dizi. :wink:
From The Flute by Ardal Powell:
'Curt Sachs, one of the pioneers of the study of instruments in the early twentieth century, wrote in The History of Musical Instruments that the Chinese chi was the earliest recorded transverse flute, datable to the ninth century B.C.E., but that it may have derived from a central Asian flute that was even older. [...] Whether the Chinese and Indian forms are historically connected is not clear. [...] It is usually assumed that some kind of Indian flute became known in Byzantium around the tenth century, and was thence transmitted to Europe.'
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Re: Chinese Dizi is the same thing as an Irish flute!

Post by Feadoggie »

Correct me if I am wrong, please, but aren't the Bawu and the Hulusi both reed instrumnts? Not exactly flutes - maybe more like baglesspipes. The Bawu is stopped at both ends from what I gather and pressure from the mouth vibrates the reed in the tube. Is that right? And the Hulusi has the drones? Interesting sounds.

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Re: Chinese Dizi is the same thing as an Irish flute!

Post by Nanohedron »

Feadoggie wrote:Correct me if I am wrong, please, but aren't the Bawu and the Hulusi both reed instrumnts?
You are indeed correct. The bawu is played transversely, the hulusi vertically.
Feadoggie wrote:The Bawu is stopped at both ends from what I gather and pressure from the mouth vibrates the reed in the tube. Is that right?
A quick check on Wiki tells me that only the head end is closed off, the bell end open. But I don't know personally. The reed is a bronze or copper free reed - definitely a Southeast Asian invention - and inset nearly flush into the head:

Image
Feadoggie wrote:And the Hulusi has the drones? Interesting sounds.
Similar in concept to the pungi or been, that instrument we associate with Indian or Pakistani snake charmers. Difference being that the hulusi is, again, a free reed instrument and the pungi, best as I can tell, is not.
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Re: Chinese Dizi is the same thing as an Irish flute!

Post by meoweth »

Bawu is also played vertically. Hulusi has the drone notes but its a bit more decorative. I strongly suggest a Bawu over a hulusi because bawu has much more comfortable fingering holes and there isnt that annoying gourd. But hey, its only $10 for hulusi, so just get both..
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