Whistles for a brass player

[Pachycephalosaur]

Hi everyone. I have been a brass player for close to 10 years, and I decided to take up the tin whistle to make myself more useful at the sessions I attend (I usually play violin).

I just bought my first tin whistle (Clarke Original in D), and I am having no problem with the fingerings or learning tunes, but I feel like I am constantly holding my air back to keep it from squeaking. Is this something other brass players have encountered? Will I just have to get used to it, is there a special technique, or is there a brand of whistle that is more tolerant of brass players' tendency to blow their hearts out?

Thanks!

[ecohawk]

Well I can't speak to what a brass player might expect but my guess is that you need a whistle with some resistance to breath pressure so you can push them without holding back. Some call it back-pressure but I'm not fond of that term. You have one of the most free blowing and least breath resistant whistles made in your Clarke. While there are several makers that would offer you this feature, those that come to mind immediately are Goldie, Busman, Chieftain. Goldie and Busman will offer you a level of customization to suit your personal preferences since these are hand made and come from really great folks to do business with as well. Of course all of these are at the other end of the price spectrum from your Clarke. Carey Parks whistles might suit you and are in the $50 - $60 USD range as I recall. They are very nice instruments too - well in tune - and Carey is a great guy to deal with. I don't know of any whistles priced like your Clarke that offer any significant breath resistance. Others may have some ideas.

Good luck,
ecohawk

[MTGuru]

Hi Pachy, welcome.

If anything, the Clarke Original takes more air than most. So other whistles will take you in the other direction.

The problem is that you're used to more backpressure (resistance) from a brass embouchure. And whistles like a gentler touch. Especially toward the bottom of the range, where a near whisper will often do. And it's really up to you to manage your breath pressure and tailor it to the instrument.

That said, there are a few things you can do. Search for "Clarke tweak" for a description of how to squash the windway a bit. You can also tighten your embouchure by narrowing your lips for a smaller, more focused airstream and more backpressure. That works best if you're not taking the whole beak into your mouth, but just resting the tip against your lips, with only a few mm extending in.

Relatively speaking, there are some whistles known for more backpressure (e.g. Goldies). But you'll be happier if you adjust your technique and master the very light breath control right from the start.

Good luck, have fun!

[Pachycephalosaur]

Relatively speaking, there are some whistles known for more backpressure (e.g. Goldies). But you'll be happier if you adjust your technique and master the very light breath control right from the start.

Well, I'd rather not spring for the expensive models, so I'll stick with it. Thanks for the advice. I tried a tighter embouchure just briefly now, and it seems to work slightly better. A little frustrating on a low D still, but certainly more manageable.

Thanks for the tips, everyone!

[Angel Shadowsong]

How about trying a Low-whistle before you shift to high whistle?


The lower whistle has more breath requirements than that of the higher whistle.
Shifting slowly from low to high may help say Low D then to E then to F....then eventually to high D

This is like heavy resistance weight training then doing an aerobics.

I haven't tried brass before, but based on their frog-like cheeks, using circular breathing or not, they tend to blow with high intensity.

Shifting directly to higher whistle will make you squeek it, as you may need to train first at the subtle the breath control yielding to what you are not used to.

[megapop]

Well, I'd rather not spring for the expensive models

You might try the Ferris whistles, which are very cheap - the D/C set is £10.00 ...

Especially as your problem seems to be the back pressure, not the air requirement; the Ferris whistles take a really good push, even in the lower range. And they're pretty loud... thus the highest notes are kind of lethal, but I think that's the nature of the beast. A whistle is always a compromise...

However, that's a nice, affordable and sturdy set that should meet your requirements.

[plunk111]

Pachy...

I'm a brass player, too (trumpet). If you're anything like me, you can fund a "higher-end" whistle by selling one or two of your mouthpieces!!!

Seriously, though, the money you pop for any of the whistles above the Generation/Clarke level is well worth it and if you don't like it, they usually sell again for close to what you paid. One option that hasn't been mentioned above (I think) is the Jerry Freeman tweaked whistles. They aren't (too) much more than yours and are just about as good as the higher priced ones. I've owned and played LOTS of whistles (even though I'm primarily a "fluter") and you are truly doing yourself a disservice by playing the Clarke as a session instrument. They're fine for playing in the woods (trust me) or by yourself, but to compete with concertinas, flutes, and the like, you really need something "better".

Good luck in your quest!

Pat

[R Small]

I'm a woodwind player (sax and clarinet) and am used to pushing quite a bit of air through a tube. I can't play light blowing whistles at all. They just overblow right off the bat. So I play whistles that will take a little air pressure without overblowing: Susatos, WD Sweet, Bracker, Burke session bore. Susatos are inexpensive and are good values.

[Mr.Gumby]

you are truly doing yourself a disservice by playing the Clarke as a session instrument. They're fine for playing in the woods (trust me) or by yourself, but to compete with concertinas, flutes, and the like, you really need something "better"

A matter of taste it would seem to me. I am not a big fan of Clarkes but they are still being used very effectively, in combination with fiddles and accordions or concertinas I may add (see An Triur for example)

[ytliek]

Welcome to the C&F Whistle Forum!

There's a lot of air moving here.

[pancelticpiper]

Well, not brass, but I came to the whistle from the Highland pipes, on which you also "blow your heart out" as you say!

Whistle players speak of various whistles having "low backpressure", "medium backpressure", and "high backpressure" but this range, to a piper, is negligible, and the highest backpressure whistle on earth has a vastly lower backpressure than the easiest decent Highland pipe chanter reed. In other words to me, and quite possibly to you, all whistles blow more or less alike, and at a much lower pressure that what we're used to.

I've found over the years that "legit" musicians, be they violinists or brass players or "reed men" or what have you, tend to like the way Michael Burke whistles play. You should try a Burke! You'll probably like it. Many's the time I've been at a "legit" gig, a church gig or an orchestra gig or a studio gig, and a "legit" musician (woodwind guy usually) shows me his roll of a dozen Burkes in every chromatic key.

Burkes have a butter-smooth response and timbre over the range which you'll like. And what's great for a "doubler" is that all the various keys of Burkes play exactly alike, so that at a gig you can just grab any one and there will be no surprises!

If you want a "high backpressure" whistle you can have one made for you that way by Colin Goldie. It's worth trying out.

[preacher]

I agree with previous reply. I play trumpet, sax, & flute. breathing skills required for all including whistles. Try experimenting around with a few different brands. All have individual characteristics including response & breath requirements. Learning to get through the octave change smoothly is something that comes with practice but some whistles seem to make it easier. Happy hunting and watch for signs of WOA.

[thejoecole]

I'm just starting out playing the whistle... having never played an instrument before. I've got both a Clarke Sweetone and a Feadog whistle (both in D) and have issues with the low end of the scale. If I blow "ever so gently", I can get a decent sounding D, but the higher I go, it gets flat. I blow harder get a good tone going up to B & C and then completely overblow when I get back down to the D.

I've seen that Susato whistles are "recommended" in this thread as an affordable option and is more forgiving for those of us who blow a little too hard. Of the various models on Susato's website, I'm not quite sure which direction to go with their "D" whistle offerings. The Kildare line has two models (S & V) are are the more expensive of the models at $48.90. On the less expensive end is the Dublin V series and the Oriole.

Any recommendations for a beginner on breathing/blowing techniques and a "forgiving" whistle choice is greatly appreciated.

v/r
Joe

[farmerjones]

Trombone player here.. You're just going to have to get used to it. I have a hard time playing my whistles when on my embouchure breaks (a Susato low G and a Kerry low D). It's a bit easier if I practice the whistle first, or play it hours after having played the trombone. I don't think there is a whistle on earth that is going to need the same amount of air. In fact, I'd be scared of the whistle that did...

[cboody]

Most brass players coming to the whistle over blow greatly. That includes me with more years of trumpet than I would admit to on the list I was fortunate to play a great deal of that other fipple flute the r*corder before coming to the whistle and that did help. A couple of thoughts that might help:

1) Work down to the low D using a simple slow scale down from, say G (top hand down). Listen for the sound that indicates the whistle is going to jump the octave and reduce your air stream when you hear it. You don't have to ruin your fun by making this a big thing, but do it a few times when you start to play. I can help the breath control and also help you be sure your fingers are covering the holes well (a second possible reason for squeaking).

2) Try to play the upper octave with as little air as possible. You are playing a conical bore whistle with the Sweetone and the upper octave shouldn't take much push to stay in tune. If you'd like to be able to use more air in the upper register (which can be quite automatic for a brass player...more air or a more focused and faster stream perhaps) play an inexpensive cylindrical bore instrument. (Feadog, Generation, Susato (a bit more money) or the like). They will want more push to keep the upper octave in tune, or at least most of the will.

3) My own experience says almost any other whistle than the Original Clark can be conquered by brass players pretty much from the gitgo. There is so little resistance on the original Clark that it can drive brass players (or at least this one) nuts.

4) Always remember to increase the stream as you go up and reduce it as you go down. Time will eventually tell you how much to change and where in the range of the instrument. BUT, if you keep buying different instruments you will find the rules change! So, pick one you enjoy and stay with it until things happen comfortably then join the rest of us in buying far too many whistles!

Good Luck

Chuck Boody