Joanie Madden sheet music?

DrGiggles · Post by **DrGiggles** » Tue Jul 03, 2001 10:20 pm

Does anyone know if there's sheet music available for "the Immigrant" by Keane/Madden?

I personally think it's one of the most hauntingly beautiful songs from the "Song of the Irish whsitle" CD.

John Palmer · Post by **John Palmer** » Fri Jul 06, 2001 3:18 pm

I have it!

DrGiggles · Post by **DrGiggles** » Fri Jul 06, 2001 3:37 pm

<<Looking at watch>>...

Cool! Where did you get it? Is it in a book? Where can I obtain it, and for how much?

I've figured most it out by ear, but I'd like to get a copy of the sheet music as well.

Thanks,
Frank

John Palmer · Post by **John Palmer** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 5:01 pm

I wrote it down from the CD. There is only melody and the guitar chords. I would have to send it to you by regular mail. You have my email. JP

DrGiggles · Post by **DrGiggles** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 6:45 pm

Danger Will Robinson!!!

This is going in to a delicate subject of Copyright. Unlike most whistle music - which is public domain - "The Immigrant" is copyrighted by Keane/Madden.

I've got the music mostly figured out. I wanted a copy of the sheet music for my personal collection.

Thanks anyway,
Frank

John Palmer · Post by **John Palmer** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 7:47 pm

Dr. Smith,

Let me know which measures you need to know which notes or chords!

Will

FairEmma · Post by **FairEmma** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 9:54 pm

Ummm ... wouldn't that be: Dear Dr Smith's Robot?

FE

John Palmer · Post by **John Palmer** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 10:30 pm

You're right! Darn, I guess I'm just not old enough to remember such details (43).

FairEmma · Post by **FairEmma** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 10:57 pm

Then again, it could be a brain cell thing. I'm 43 too.

FairEmma · Post by **FairEmma** » Sun Jul 08, 2001 12:11 am

Okay ... this copyright thing got me going, 'cause I would have said two people exchanging the worked-out notation of a copywrited tune for private use (no exchange of money and nobody was going to perform the tune for money) would have been okay.

So I looked up intellectual property and copyright stuff and discovered this:

"Copyright law secures for the creator of a creative effort the exclusive right to control who can make copies, or make works derived from the original work. ... If you create something, and it fits the definition of a creative work, you get to control who can make copies of it and how they make copies." (citation: Brad Templeton)

That being the case, it would seem to me learning a copyrighted tune by ear is essentially "making a copy." So if I'm sitting in the privacy of my home, playing along to copyrighted music (anything not in the public domain), I'm technically violating copyright law? There's a thought!

Or is it a copy only if I copy the disc? Or write down what I think the notes are? Or play the copy in public (for free)?

Obviously, there's a sensibility factor that comes into play. Even if I am breaching copyright by making ephemeral aural copies in the privacy of my home, I suspect Joanie Madden is not going to haul me off to civil court (after all, the people who hold copyrights on Star Trek don't go after the folks who write "fan fiction"). And were I in her position, I don't think I'd be fussed about Sue passing the notes along to her friend Amy, 'cause Amy couldn't quite figure them all out by ear.

But somewhere, there's a critical boundary. And clearly, we all make a choice about the degree to which we honour the letter of the law.

It's so confusing!

[ This Message was edited by: FairEmma on 2001-07-08 02:13 ]

[ This Message was edited by: FairEmma on 2001-07-08 02:19 ]

John Palmer · Post by **John Palmer** » Sun Jul 08, 2001 12:22 am

So, aren't you a little young to up so late?

Anyway, please tell me about these wooden whistles you talked about in another thread. How are they, price, etc? Are they easy to order?

Thanks,
John

DrGiggles · Post by **DrGiggles** » Sun Jul 08, 2001 3:01 am

Actually, after the Napster hearings, the Laws regarding copying music has been modified somewhat. Emma, I think you're safe if you learn a song - especially from ear. As long as you don't start saying that you wrote "What do you do with a drunken sailor?", we'll be fine

The parts I'm having difficulty with are specifically the accordian and telling where the acoustic guitar vs. the harp guitar are playing. The melody itself is relatively simple Having the sheet music was primarily for my collection. I'll try to contact Hearts O' Space in the near future and see if it's for sale.

Thanks again,
Frank

FairEmma · Post by **FairEmma** » Sun Jul 08, 2001 10:47 am

Dear Frank.

Via rebels, change!

As a writer, I value that the second anything I write appears in tangible form, it is irrefutably my property (although the issue of "copy" is bit more straight-forward in regard to the printed word). In theory, I support this for any creation.

However, I find the complex issues of copyright, especially when they pertain to music (even original composition and arrangements of tune) that proudly positions itself within the ancient and organic heritage of aural transmission and individual interpretation, intriguing.

Now, back to playing along with Grey Larsen!

FairEmma · Post by **FairEmma** » Sun Jul 08, 2001 11:14 am

Dear John,

I think it's rather I'm too old for that hour, but my eyes simply wouldn't close.

I did write a review of the Boudreau set for Dale, and it is currently appearing in his Chiff News section, along with the pictures I took.

Since I wrote that review shortly upon receipt, I've had more time to get acquainted. These whistles are on the louder end of the spectrum, although not to Susato class. They are clear, in that there is little chiff or breathiness. They are on the full or round side, with a more resonant quality than, say, my Copeland, but do not sound at all recorder-like to me. They are cheerful and bright, as a whistle should be.

There is a quality to the tone that I'm hard-pressed to define ... I'm going to say it is a subtle, reedy "whine" (not at all an objectionable whine - more like a lover's moan) that makes the sound more complex. I happen to like it very well.

The three bodies and interchangeable head are superbly crafted ... of boxwood (I think - rather stupidly I'm unsure), a rich varigated and grained golden color that is enhance by the hand-rubbed, oiled finish. The wood around the fipple is of a contrasting colour. Finger holes are slightly bevelled at the edges. I figure folks would either love or hate the profile - it isn't classically "whistle."

The B-flat is my favourite body ... and plays easily along the range. It's tone is compelling. Both the C and B-flat come up aces against my tuner. I'm having a bit of difficulty with octave-flipping on second register A and B with the D body ... but then, I'm never superalitve up there with most whistles, so I'm going to say the fault there lies with me. I play the D along fine with MIDI files, or to CDs, and yet against my tuner, it appears consistently flat across the range (that's pushed in all the way, so I can't sharp the tone by pushing in more). I do plan on discussing this with Jean-Luc when I meet him in August. The instruments have a year guarantee (and a two-week period of unconditional return after receipt), and he is such a pleasant fellow to work with, I can't imagine there will be a problem.

Jean-Luc has a website, but it's all about his recorder manufacture, so you won't find any whistle information there. Best just to enter an e-mail dialogue with him. He has been very responsive and prompt. His e-mail: Jean-Luc Boudreau, flutes@colba.net.

I hope this is helpful.

best,
FE

Post by **rich** » Sun Jul 08, 2001 1:25 pm

On 2001-07-08 02:11, FairEmma wrote:

"Copyright law secures for the creator of a creative effort the exclusive right to control who can make copies, or make works derived from the original work. ... If you create something, and it fits the definition of a creative work, you get to control who can make copies of it and how they make copies." (citation: Brad Templeton)

That being the case, it would seem to me learning a copyrighted tune by ear is essentially "making a copy."

It is, except that your copy would fall under Fair Use guidelines, since you're using it for nonprofit educational use.

Or is it a copy only if I copy the disc? Or write down what I think the notes are? Or play the copy in public (for free)?

Copying the disc and giving the copy to someone else is unquestionably not fair use; playing in public for free is more of a grey area. If you play the tune, you're scot-free; if you play someone's recorded arrangement, it's probably a violation. (You don't have to make money off of it to make it a violation of copyright; consider trading software on a BBS.)

Obviously, there's a sensibility factor that comes into play. Even if I am breaching copyright by making ephemeral aural copies in the privacy of my home, I suspect Joanie Madden is not going to haul me off to civil court (after all, the people who hold copyrights on Star Trek don't go after the folks who write "fan fiction").

They do quite often, but they usually reserve it for the extremes.

And were I in her position, I don't think I'd be fussed about Sue passing the notes along to her friend Amy, 'cause Amy couldn't quite figure them all out by ear.

And here fair use comes in again, messier. Transcriptions are a standard part of jazz education, and transcribing and sharing transcriptions is common practice (including within university curricula, which suggests legality to me). But a transcription of a jazz tune is of one person's solo -- 10 to 50% of the tune -- and an important aspect of fair use is that you use a /part/ of the original (like, for instance, quotations in an academic journal). Transcribing a whole tune yourself isn't problematic because it's for your education and because you've paid for rights to use the music yourself; giving a transcription of an entire tune to someone else is considerably greyer.

I am not a lawyer, and the above is not legal advice.
<ul>-Rich</ul>