The Rolling Waves

[Clarinetcat]

The Rolling Waves... I've decided this will be my next tune to learn (on whistle).

Sheet music from TheSession.org:
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/88


Of course I wanted to hear it, so I started poking around and found a few "versions"...

From the movie The Boys and Girl from County Clare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y17Jd319fVI

It has some differences, particularly in measure 7... sounds like a long roll and ascending scale instead of arpeggios found in the sheet music on TheSession.


Fellow C&F member JoshD, YouTube video from last year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7wZt2B36nI

I have a different setting to the Rolling waves to. Figured I would through it up. It's great how the same tune has many different faces

This also has some differences, especially the repeating ascending scale in the first section.


This last example changes to D Mixolydian, thanks James for the analysis.
http://irishflute.podbean.com/2008/07/2 ... -wave-jig/

Michael Clarkson definitely has a different feel for the tune than I do; also, I noticed it's in a different key, he is playing C-naturals instead of C-sharps, which instead of D-major I believe would be D-mixolydian.

So, as a new player attempting to learn some ITM, this song has brought a couple of questions to mind...

1) Do versions of relatively well known ITM tunes always vary this much from session to session, depending on where you are and who is in your group?

2) Is one of the above versions more commonly heard than the others?

[MTGuru]

1) Do versions of relatively well known ITM tunes always vary this much from session to session, depending on where you are and who is in your group?

2) Is one of the above versions more commonly heard than the others?

Short answers: 1) Yep. 2) Nope. But the TheSession setting is pretty generic.

[MTGuru]

Interesting, Mr. G. And folks I play with also tend to favor the C-nats / DMix feel. More like D Mixed-up-ian.

Oops, Mr. G's mixed meter transcription from Brother Steve has disappeared now ...

Longer answer for the OP:

Tune settings may vary that much from repetition to repetition by the same player, much less from session to session. And it sounds like you're thinking of these "versions" as fixed entities, which is more or less wrong. A player may work out a particular treatment of a tune, and play that fairly consistently. Or play a setting they've acquired from someone else. Or, at the other end of the scale, just make up their interpretation as they play, a bit like jazz improv, and never play the same exact setting twice. Or likely something in between, with planned approaches to various phrases, but chosen and applied on the fly and mixed with creative variation.

So to distinguish versions as "different" at too fine a level of detail is a mistake. Tunes exist at both a "deep" level and a surface level. And when you learn a tune, you learn a mixture of both the Ur-tune and the particular setting. All of the above versions capture the same tune played (or notated) by specific players at a specific moment in time.

Take Josh's performance. It's likely he's worked this out as one personalized approach to the tune, and that he can reproduce this approach at his pleasure. But it's possible that this is the first and last time he'll play it this way.

Also, at sessions you sometimes find a mixture of slightly different settings and ornament all being played simultaneously. Everyone knows it's the same tune. Of course, longer standing sessions with key players often develop a favored setting that the group gravitates to. Otherwise, players may tend to what they consider a more basic, generic setting than if playing solo, since grandstanding is usually frowned on. In any case, good players will adjust to different session settings on the fly. And it's this dynamic interaction that makes a session interesting.

From the movie The Boys and Girl from County Clare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y17Jd319fVI

Actually, this video has a Chiffboard connection, too, since that's our own Ptarmigan playing that opening scene.

[PhilO]

AKA The Lonesome Jig. Great version (as The Rolling Waves) on the Portland CD , Kevin Burke and Michael O Domhnaill (Green Linnet 1041)

Philo

[Clarinetcat]

Tune settings may vary that much from repetition to repetition by the same player, much less from session to session. And it sounds like you're thinking of these "versions" as fixed entities, which is more or less wrong. A player may work out a particular treatment of a tune, and play that fairly consistently. Or play a setting they've acquired from someone else. Or, at the other end of the scale, just make up their interpretation as they play, a bit like jazz improv, and never play the same exact setting twice. Or likely something in between, with planned approaches to various phrases, but chosen and applied on the fly and mixed with creative variation.

So to distinguish versions as "different" at too fine a level of detail is a mistake. Tunes exist at both a "deep" level and a surface level. And when you learn a tune, you learn a mixture of both the Ur-tune and the particular setting. All of the above versions capture the same tune played (or notated) by specific players at a specific moment in time.

This is extremely helpful, thanks so much for taking the time to address this question! As long as I know I can find the "skeleton" of a tune in sheet music form as a reference, I should have no problem adding some substance to it by listening to a variety of tune settings.

Also, ...at sessions you sometimes find a mixture of slightly different settings and ornament all being played simultaneously. Everyone knows it's the same tune. Of course, longer standing sessions with key players often develop a favored setting that the group gravitates to. Otherwise, players may tend to what they consider a more basic, generic setting than if playing solo, since grandstanding is usually frowned on. In any case, good players will adjust to different session settings on the fly. And it's this dynamic interaction that makes a session interesting.

This is also valuable information, as one of my concerns attempting to learn some ITM was that I would learn a tune "wrong" and then discover that it was "different" from what might be performed in a session.

From the movie The Boys and Girl from County Clare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y17Jd319fVI

Actually, this video has a Chiffboard connection, too, since that's our own Ptarmigan playing that opening scene.

Excellent!!!

[bogman]

Personally I prefer the sharp c's but play it both ways. I believe in learning tunes they way they are played locally or by people you know but also learning other versions and improvising the tune when playing it at home. That way you're not tied to the way you initially learned it.

PhilO, are you sure this is also known as the Lonesome Jig? The other Rolling Waves ( http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/515 ) is sometimes known by that name but have never heard the tune referred to here as having that name.

[Clarinetcat]

Personally I prefer the sharp c's but play it both ways. I believe in learning tunes they way they are played locally or by people you know but also learning other versions and improvising the tune when playing it at home. That way you're not tied to the way you initially learned it.

PhilO, are you sure this is also known as the Lonesome Jig? The other Rolling Waves ( http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/515 ) is sometimes known by that name but have never heard the tune referred to here as having that name.

I'm messing around with it now (have been for almost 2 hours), and I haven't decided which I like better... the C naturals or C sharps. I guess I'll just have to keep playing it some more to figure it out.

I was under the impression that the other name for THIS particular "Roling Waves" was also called "Humoros Trim", correct?

[bogman]

I would agree Clarinetcat, I've also heard it called that. Somewhere along the line the two tunes got their paths crossed.

[PhilO]

Ah, sorry, I thought the sheet music looked different, but that was the only one I knew of. In any event, do yourself a favor and listen to the CD; it's a treat. I learned the tune with some lovely crans sprinkled about (second bar of each of the first two lines, A part). Takes practice to get those two fingers down one after the other so that it sounds right.

Philo

[bogman]

I will, thanks.

[Parkwood]

I know this as the Humours of Trim!

I play all C's sharp except the one in bar 6, which I play natural (and change the preceding note to a B). Try it

[Clarinetcat]

I play all C's sharp except the one in bar 6, which I play natural (and change the preceding note to a B). Try it

Interesting, I'll have to try that later...

During practice the past couple of days, I've been practicing both and have seemed to prefer the C# on the high D whistle (it has a more spirited sound), and CNat on the Low D whistle (a bit more somber, darker like the sea).

Regardless, I can play it both ways now.

[Clarinetcat]

OK... here is a clip, on a Kerry Pro Low D (with C-Naturals)

http://media.soundcloud.com/stream/rPv3 ... oken=VJg1w

[NicoMoreno]

It sounds like you are reading from sheet music. Plus it is still way too fast for you. And you still need to work on your ornaments.

Basically everything MTGuru said for the last one still applies. I'd take these two tunes and work on the for the next couple of weeks. Listen listen listen, and stop looking at the sheet music.

[MTGuru]

CC, just keep in mind that we're going to be hard on you ... Because your command of the basics (breath, tone, fingering) is already strong, and your potential is high.

Yes, too fast. You're up around 124. Try 100.