Finger flopping

[electricmime]

As I've been getting faster at playing, I've noticed that running directly up or down a scale results in a slurring that I don't like. I've been purposely stripping ornamentation out of the tune whenever possible, so I've not been tounging anything. Tonguing would be my normal solution to add a bit of clarity to the notes in this case.

Is there a traditional solution to this problem, other than cleaner finger work?

[benhall.1]

I would have thought that "cleaner finger work" was the whole solution. I know the "slurring" you're on about. My own take on it is that your fingers need to become like little hammers - very mechanical in their movements, like little machines under your control. But this is tricky to do whilst at the same time maintaining a relaxed hold without any tension. As ever, practice is the answer.

[MTGuru]

your fingers need to become like little hammers - very mechanical in their movements, like little machines under your control.

I like that analogy, Ben.

[highland-piper]

No matter how clean the fingering, if you play straight up or down a scale with no articulation, is that not, by definition, a slur?

[benhall.1]

[benhall.1]

No matter how clean the fingering, if you play straight up or down a scale with no articulation, is that not, by definition, a slur?

Yes, technically, but I think you'll find that that's not what the OP meant.

..... I was going to try and explain for him, but I'll wait 'til he comes back in here ...

[fearfaoin]

Yes, technically, but I think you'll find that that's not what the OP meant.
..... I was going to try and explain for him, but I'll wait 'til he comes back in here ...

I was just about to ask what electricmime
meant by "slur" because I suspected it was
not the regular musical definition.

[crookedtune]

Conversations with mimes are always difficult.

I suspect he meant the runs lack crispness. I'd add cuts or taps, if they make musical sense in context.

[benhall.1]

Y' see, the thing is, I reckon I know what he means 'cos it used to happen to me when I started too, and it's annoying. Again, I suppose I'm speculating and the mime himself ought to put us straight on what he meant, but I would say "yes" to the crispness lack thereof thing, but cuts and taps won't help. As the man has said, he's deliberately cut those out so he can flag up his finger floppiness in all its glory and deal with it. The only answer - in my book - is to work those little engines, man!

[jemtheflute]

Yes, I'd assume the OP meant involuntary (partial) glissandi (or "swipes" or "slides") or burbles from unclean fingering ( ), not slurs in the technical musical sense of notes not separated by articulation - and I know exactly what s/he means - and yes, the solution lies in increasing the definition and accuracy, positiveness and conscious control of your finger motions - until it becomes automatic and subconscious. Tonguing will only cover up any messy finger moves, not help to improve the clean changes you must aim for (just as you need to practice tonguing if you intend to use it to make sure it coincides accurately with the inceptions of new notes). Practice legato (no tongued articulation) and slowly, making sure you get clean movement and note-changes and no extraneous, unintended notes or slides between them, and gradually speed up. Do it without any finger-articulation too as that itself also requires good clarity of movement, so should be brought in a little later, IMO, when you can do "plain" changes reliably cleanly. Ben is right about the need to avoid tension, too.

[AlBrown]

If it is Irish music he is playing on the whistle, he needs to keep his tongue out of it. Leave the tongueing to the Fife and Drum crowd.

[electricmime]

I'm complaining about the lack of crispness. I'm not getting slides. I AM getting technical slurs. I'm switching notes without articulation. I feel that it is eliminating the sense of rhythm because of the lack of articulation. The recordings of the same tunes seem much more crisp. DEG sounds almost exactly like D2G, the E getting lost in the lack of articulation.

Perhaps it's time for me to start applying some ornamentation for articulation purposes. Anyone have any good suggestions for articulation for that E?

[StevieJ]

DEG sounds almost exactly like D2G, the E getting lost in the lack of articulation.

Perhaps it's time for me to start applying some ornamentation for articulation purposes. Anyone have any good suggestions for articulation for that E?

If DEG sounds almost exactly like D2G, something is wrong. I find it hard to imagine what, but something is!

You say you aren't tonguing, but perhaps are you "huffing" individual notes instead? If you are blowing a constant stream of air, and the note E isn't sounding clearly... I'd think you must be lifting your fingers in some weird way. Not little hammers!

Forget any ideas of ornamenting for the purpose of making the E in DEG crisper, at least until you can make it sound properly without, and maybe still then.

(BTW Al, I agree that our friend should leave tonguing out until this problem is fixed, but the idea that tonguing has no place in Irish whistle playing is total b@llox. Open your ears! )

[MTGuru]

If it is Irish music he is playing on the whistle, he needs to keep his tongue out of it. Leave the tongueing to the Fife and Drum crowd.

No, sorry Al, I'm afraid that's just bad advice and wrong, a beginner's myth that some of the better players around here have worked for years to dispel. So let's not go down that path one more time ...

Yes, classical style tongue articulation is a no-no in most Irish styles, and classically trained players may need to unlearn old habits. The point is that tonguing is not a *substitute* for clean fingering and finger articulation, but needs to work together with it for emphasis and phrasing. That's the part that beginners get caught up on.

Listen to my whistle clips. Or the clips that Mr. Gumby just posted to the Garry Somers thread. Or Vinnie Kilduff's clips for Jerry Freeman. Or Seán Ryan, Julie Fowlis, Micho Russell, Joanie Madden, Muireann Nic Amhlaoibh, Cormac Breatnach, Breda Smyth. There's a whole lot of careful whistle tonguing going on.

[benhall.1]

Whole lotta tongueing going on ...

... hmmm ... why's there a song going through my head?