Timing/Phrasing for a beginner

[oregonden]

About a year ago, I became hooked on learning to play traditional Irish dance tunes. Polkas, reels, jigs, hornpipes; so many wonderful songs and tempos. Being retired, I have time to practice the ten to twelve songs I've found to be favorites right now including Shandon Bells, Drowsy Maggie, Kesh Jig, Silver Spear, hornpipes, great stuff played by great accomplished players. I thought I was making good progress (and always having fun) until my oldest son bought me a ...good metronome for Christmas . I begin again, this time to play more accurately by covering the holes well, playing the correct tempo and not dropping a beat or note. It's been a wonderful wake up call. The metronome has become my best accompaniest to learn Irish traditional music. It doesn't lie and when I play through passages smoothly and in time, it's about the best reward this old geezer can get. Along with Tony Higgins suggestion to continue to learn new songs to keep up interest and enjoyment and the new metronome, I've entered new and fun levels of playing. Just wanted to share my discoveries to having fun and making that time in the woodshed productive. Cheers!

Dennis

[Tim2723]

Good on you! Keep making it fun!!

[devondancer]

Keep having fun!

Lesley

[Rhadge]

Glad you're having fun. A lot of retired people seem to think they're too old to learn something new.

A general question that I have been meaning to ask: does constantly training to a metronome cause dependancy for that, or does it in fact give a good sense of timing even when playing without?

[Cayden]

I have yet to meet a traditional musician who played to a metrognome.

A metronome will not instill a sense of phrasing in the player by the way and it wouldn't be my advice for developing a sense of timing either. But there you go, to each their own.

[talasiga]

If a metronome is anything like a garden gnome
it will be very rigid, though happy,
and a parody of the real
timeless elf ....

[Bothrops]

I have never practiced with a metronome, but I think I have a good timing.
What I prefer to do every now and then is to play along recordings, or much better, play in sessions or with other people!

[Rhadge]

Thought as much.
Don't use metronome myself, but have been thinking of practising with one. Maybe I will forget that idea and continue playing to real music.

[burnsbyrne]

I think a metronome is good in several circumstances:
1) a fledging musician with little no early-life experience with music and who can't hear the note timing while playing and needs an outside reference to "keep him honest" and build the rhythmic sense.
2) when increasing speed of playing from a newbee's crawl to session speed. Again, the metronome provides an outside reference
3) when learning a new technique or difficult melody. See #2 above.

This discussion came up often in classical and flamenco guitar boards I used to read. Some said, "Oh my god, you can't learn flamenco with a metronome!" Obviously, some one like Yo Yo Mah or Tommy Peoples or Paco de Lucia doesn't use a metronome because he has one in his head which has been fine tuned from birth. But I'll bet that Yo Yo Mah used one when he was a child learning how to play. I used a metronome extensively for learning classical guitar music, but there comes a point when you turn it off to find your own voice in the music. The metronome is a useful tool for learning, especially for those who weren't exposed to music as a child.
Mike

[ten or more]

I like to use a metronome, especially when learning a new song because it forces me to keep better time and more importantly it forces me to pay attention to what's happening around me and still play accurately (or try to )

More importantly I like to play with good recordings because it gives a more accurate ITM feel.

And best of all is to play in a session.

In all three cases I have to remember to pay attention to the important things happening around me - eg the music and not what's happening at the bar.

There are a lot of non-midi sources of listening to these tunes on the web. It might be helpful to have a sticky devoted to them. Just an idea.

[trill]

oregonden,

Welcome to metronomes!

I think they're great! ... For all the reasons you mentioned, plus a few more.

First, playing with a metronome exercises the all-important skill of playing in time with a beat that you're listening to. Of course, when playing with other musicians, the "beat" is the group-beat. But, for practicing by oneself, a clicker is a good place to start.

Second, while there is no doubt that certain qualities of Irish music comes from subtle departures from strict integer subdivisions, for those of us who are new to music, working with a metronome gives a perceptual framework from which be aware of those subtle variations.

Happy clicking!

trill

[Peter_H]

When I was first learning to play guitar back in high school (about 30 years ago), I soon found myself in a band. Probably the best musician of the bunch was our drummer. He could, however, have a bit of a quick temper, so if one of us was a bit off the beat we could wind up being struck by a drumstick. If your bad timing was severe and often enough, things like cymbals could get flung at you. A metronome like that quickly teaches you to be careful about such things.

Interestingly, it was the bassist from that band who gave us the Generation D which started me on the whistling path. He still plays bass in a band after all these years, and has added whistle, bodhran and other instruments. http://www.siochana.ca/ is the link to his Irish/Celtic/traditional band, and Bruce's bio is at http://home.thezone.net/~dfeehan/band/Bruce.htm. I was lead guitar in the mentioned "Feedback".

Since I don't own a metronome, and from the posts here it looks like one would be handy for a beginner like myself, I found one on the internet at http://www.metronomeonline.com/. Are there any other good ones out there?

Peter

[hoopy mike]

I have yet to meet a traditional musician who played to a metrognome.

Ah, but then there's the metro-leipreachán; a city cousin to the country-dwelling leipreachán. They're great for playing whistle with, but don't expect to find any with their crock of gold intact. They usually blow it all on the sky-high rent for metro pads and the other delights that the big city has to offer.

[Guinness]

A music buddy lamented recently that living on this side of the pond means that we don't live and learn traditional music in a traditional way (I think he wants to move to Ireland).

A metronome is useful to anyone who does not practice with others or receive instruction from a qualified instructor-- in other words a self-taught musician. Yes, you will acquire some elements of timing (pulse and evenness), and no, you will not learn phrasing from a metronome (but it will still help with that). But then whaddya expect for something that costs less than a single lesson or even free?

[Infernaltootler]

Dennis, you are an inspiration. Starting an instrument later in life is incredibly rewarding.

I started whistling about 18 months ago when I was forty cough cough. This was after I found a little whistle in the woods I was camping in and thought I would be able to pick out a tune on it having briefly twiddled with whistles 20 years earlier. Ouch, what a racket, but I swore I would learn so here I am 18 months later. The cats no longer scurry off, the kids actually dance now instead of covering their ears.

I go to local sessions and I have a whole new interest in life, a new bunch of interesting friends and the music just wants to ooze out of my pores.

I do wish I had perservered 20 years ago. I shudder to think how I could play now. I do intend to live another 20 years so there's world enough and time!

The metronome is my friend for a lot of reasons, but best for keeping me slow and accurate before getting up to speed and phrasing.

Great to hear your comments Dennis.