Sore hands!

CiaraC · Post by **CiaraC** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:26 am

I've borrowed an MK low D whistle from a friend (joy upon joy!) and am having great fun with it. The greatest 'fun', of course, being trying to play that elusive 6th hole! I'm trying to use the piper's grip, but despite my hands having a pretty big span for a girl's, I'm finding it tough to get all the holes covered completely. More, it hurts! My right hand aches...does this mean I'm not doing it right, or is it just something that will go away when I get used to it? Can any of you seasoned low whistle players encourage me even a little bit?! Note: I've only been playing for one day! Thanks!

Ciara

hoopy mike · Post by **hoopy mike** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:07 am

Try using your fourth finger (rather than your third) on the lowest hole.

Stay Hoopy,
Mike

Thomaston · Post by **Thomaston** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:12 am

Low D hurt my hands at first, too. It got better the more I played.
Of course, that doesn't mean you don't have a technique problem, too! Is there anyone experienced around you that can watch you play and give pointers?

Innocent Bystander · Post by **Innocent Bystander** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:19 am

I've got small hands and even though I can consistently cover the D hole with my pinkie, my hand still aches after a good workout.

I've found, though, that tilting the whistle to the right, so that my right hand doesn't have to stretch so far, makes it easier. I'm not sure why this should be.

It does get easier with practice, but try tilting to the right.

anniemcu · Post by **anniemcu** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:03 am

Stick with it, and don't over extend your finger spread for too long. Work only until your hand starts to ache and then stop for a while. You don't want to over do it.

I am so jealous! I would love a chance to try an MK!

IB's right about tilting the whistle as well... it takes the strain off the wrist bend. You may even want to put the fipple in the corner of your mouth.

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:14 am

The main problem for the R hand is the distance it is away from the body, which causes discomfort in the wrist if you try to use the pads of the end joints of all 3 of your R fingers. To reduce this you need to straighten the wrist, which then means you can't use the aforementioned parts of the fingers on all 3 holes. Try this method: hold the whistle with the L hand, all 3 fingers on as normal: place the centre of the end pad of R3 on its hole as normal and have R1 & 2 in the air about an inch/2-3cm above their holes; tip the near side of your R hand toward the whistle by rotating your wrist and straightening it a little, so that you can bring the centre of the pad of the 2nd in joint of R1 on to its tone-hole: R2 will then fall in to place just on the 2nd pad near the crease of the top joint. This also improves the span of the fingers, reducing the strain of stretching them apart, as indeed does using something tending towards a classical flute posture for the L hand. You can place the end of R4 against the side of the whistle as a stabiliser if it reaches comfortably. Have a look at my hand position in my demo videos on low whistle on YouTube - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ybz-1RuJR08 and http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ3Ij3AJP68. It may not work for you, but it's worth a try.
I hope that is helpful.

Makar · Post by **Makar** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:32 am

I have been using the pipers grip with both hands (as opposed to a more classic grip with the left on Jems videos) for the past 2 months now. At first all I managed was squeeking notes and pain, on the right hand ring finger stretch in particular, as you mention. I now feel no pain and the gain has been considerable. I can play most tunes on the low, albeit a bit slower, that I can play on the high D now. The knack is now to get them to sound good too

I like the idea of keeping to a select amount of tunes till they are second nature.

Keep at it - no pain no gain! But don't do too much at one sitting - once it starts hurting I would suggest you stop. I also sat and stretched my fingers on a daily basis too anytime it came into my head - prised them apart and held them like that for a minute or so at a time. You should measure the distance of comfortable spread between your index and ring finger and see how it changes over a month or so - just be interesting I suppose! Mine is comfortably 11cm now - was 9.5cm 2 months ago.

all the best
Stephen

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:19 pm

Yes, Jem is describing the right-hand piper's grip, as in the photo below. That's the way to do it. Using your little finger instead of ring finger is OK as a last resort.

A thumb strap or rest might also help at first. Check out these threads:

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=56767
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=43998
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=56770

Slanj! · Post by **Slanj!** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:24 pm

I think gently squeezing a racquetball or something while you watch tv or browsing on the computer might make a difference. I don't know if that would add flexibility to your hands, but stretching the joints and strengthening the muscles is not a bad thing, right?

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:55 pm

Slanj! wrote:stretching the joints and strengthening the muscles is not a bad thing, right?

Probably OK ... gently. But you don't want to get muscle-bound. The goal isn't strength, but flexibility and independence of movement. There was a recent thread about exercisers ... somewhere ...

CiaraC · Post by **CiaraC** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 3:28 pm

Thanks everyone - that's great. I've tried playing it to my right side (at the corner), and though I feel like a bit of a pretentious fool(!), it seems to help a bit. I guess the piper's grip will get easier in time! I'll struggle on with that rather than using my pinky, I think, since in theory I *should* be able to do this. In case anyone with the same problem is reading this, I also read some advice earlier on a beginners' guide that you shouldn't press your fingers harder on the holes when it's not sealing properly - you should just reposition them, but leave them lightly placed. I think my main problem might have been that my hand was really under a lot of pressure, and so it got stressed (poor thing!) and sore. (in terms of muscle, I should be okay, because I play guitar, although I guess the main strain there is for the left hand, not the right) Bring on tomorrow for more practise!
Cheers for all your help,

Ciara

devondancer · Post by **devondancer** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:04 am

Hi,

As another female with fairly small hands,I played with the whistle hooked onto something like a sax strap while I got used to the pipers' grip. (Only mine was made from a bit of string which went round my neck and held a picture hook which hooked onto the bottom of the whistle, taking the weight. Most of my stuff is like that!) It just means that you can release your death grip on the whistle a bit, which lets your fingers relax. I don't need it now, but was glad of it to start with.

Good luck.

Lesley

CiaraC · Post by **CiaraC** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:57 am

Ah thanks, I'll try that too, since I have a real sax strap here (no, really!)

A-Musing · Post by **A-Musing** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:55 pm

When I first attempted the Lows, it was with a lot of preconceived notions.

After much pain and frustration, I learned to relax...retool.

At one point, early on, I simply laid my hands on the whistle with NO "right way" in mind. Just hole-coverage. Ape-like.

Much squawking and screeching later, I "learned" how MY hands could play the thing. Physical adjustments followed. Many learning curves.

YOUR version of piper's grip will win the day. Don't strain. Go easy.

I've enjoyed about a decade of this, and still go on learning binges.

Great fun!

MTGuru · Post by **MTGuru** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:12 pm

CiaraC wrote:Ah thanks, I'll try that too, since I have a real sax strap here (no, really!)

Yeah, that could work, if it's a longer tenor or bari sax strap. It's a long way down to the bottom of the whistle, and an alto strap is too short. I think pancelticpiper here uses a sax strap successfully.

I prefer a short thumb strap to the "long fulcrum" of a sax strap. It's a solution also used by some tenor recorder players.

But really, the answer is to develop a good piper's grip. And get used to using your bottom B3 finger as the stabilizer - this was the key to my own progress.