Guido Design Questions

[Dan Mozell]

I've a few questions about Guido Gonzato designs and whistle making in general.

1) I was pretty successfull making a D whistle following Guido's instructions. I made an A barrel for the same head as the D (1/2 inch cpvc bore). The A is kind of quiet. Does anyone think 3/4" would be better for an A? Also, second octave A note on the A barrel is kind of noisy without tonguing if moving to that note from a first octave note. This doesn't happan on the D barrel. Do I need a different head on the A with some measurements different from the D head? Alternately, does this have to do with the narrow bore size.

2) Looks like some folks make low D whistles with 3/4" bore and some with closer to 1" bore. Are the differences purely a matter of volume, or are there other issues.

3) Guido recommends putting a piece of plastic under the cap if the windway is too high. Would it work the same way to just sand down the outside of the head where the cap goes?

4) Are their therapists who deal with Obsessive/Compulsive Whistle Making Disorder (OCWMD)?

Thanks alot.

[narrowdog]

Hi Dan
These ideas are not set in stone just what I've found through making a few of the low tech whistles.

1. I've not made an 'A' but have made a Bb out of 15.5mm pipe which has a bore of 12mm and I've found it makes quite a nice but quiet whistle.
I think if you can find some 20mm pipe for the 'A' it would make a better whistle.

2. I use 25mm pipe for my Low Ds because thats what I can get,and makes a very nice whistle IMHO.

3. Never done the plastic under the windway bit, just try a few different size windows till they sound OK.

4. No. Resistance is futile

Hope this helps,

Cheers

[devondancer]

So it's OCWMD! I knew I had something! Spent all morning making a Gsharp (High) out of a scrap bit of pipe, just to test out my fipple design! I didn't want to waste a good bit of pipe, you see.

That info is helpful as I want to make a Bb shortly - thanks a lot.

[Innocent Bystander]

Hi There, Dan!

1. Guido himself says, and I've found it to be true, that the width of the windway has more effect on the volume than anything else. If you've shaved your fipple too much, it may be needing too much air. But the plastic whistles ARE quieter than the shop-bought ones, in general. I think it's the density of the material, rather than anything else. That's why I took them up, in hopes of getting allowed to play it in the house. No such luck, even with the various silencers available (you'll find them in other threads). If you're playing in a session, you'll notice it. On your own, it's less of a bother. I've made a high A according to Guido's recipe, and find it plays very well, especially for the Ashokan Farewell. My plumbers' pipe is PEX, which is a polypropylene, which does not handle similarly to PVC. For instance, it's not worth trying to sand PEX, other than for making the back of the pipe rough to enable thumb-grip. If you can get hold of a harder plastic, such as those used as conduits for smoke alarms, it gives a greater volume of sound. The downside is it's harder to work.

2. The different diameter means the finger holes go in different places. Apart from that, it's really your choice. I've made whistles using other sizes of pipe, but really it's a trade-off between the sound you like and what your fingers can manage.

3. Putting a piece of plastic under the cap... I haven't seen this. Do you mean the windway cover? Because I haven't seen this (and I'll take a look soon, I promise) my guess is he's suggesting that largely to reduce the size of the windway aperture, so the player doesn't need as much puff. If I have that right, then sanding anything down is not the answer, as that will widen the windway, rather than reduce it. Let me get back to you on this one.

4. If you are paying money, then, OF COURSE!

...yeah. Currently I have four HomeMade Whistles in my laptop bag, two homemade Konchovkas under my desk at work, four HMWs in my guitar case, half-a-dozen more in the box at the side of the bed and two two-metre lengths of pipe standing in the corner. My wife doesn't appreciate the restraint that I show.

[Feadoggie]

Dan,

Guido certainly deserves congratulations for getting so many folks making their own whistles. Guido makes good whistles. I started making whistles before Guido posted his designs so I came up with other methods. I can offer some thoughts here based on my experiences. Bore to length ratios matter. Do some searches on Google.

I don't know where you are located and what pipe you have available but here's what works quite well for me here is the US. I am assuming you want to work with plastics.

I use 1/2" CTS (copper tubing size) cpvc hot water pipe, the ivory colored stuff, for high E Eb, D and C. This is great material. It machines nicely and takes a good polish too.

For the low A, B and Bb I use pvc pipe, this can be the grey 1/2" electrical conduit or white 1/2" schedule 40, 600 psi water pipe. The white stuff has an approximately 5/8" bore. The grey pipe generally has a bit larger bore. The grey conduit works better on the lathe but the white pipe is a more appropriate bore size.

I use the 3/4" CTS cpvc for low G and low F whistles. I love this stuff.

For low D, Eb and E I have used white 3/4" pvc schedule 40, 480 psi water pipe. I use the same material for flutes too.

All of these are available in the US at Lowes home improvement stores. Now remember that the "sizes" quoted above are nominal plumbing industry sizes and you sould be designing according to the actual bore of the tube. So take calibers with you to the store when you buy pipe.

As for the recommendation of putting a piece of plastic under the cap - this is to reduce the height of the windway. The pipe Guido uses has a thinner wall than that which I have listed above. In Guido's designs, the pipe wall thickness determines the windway height. For the pipe listed above that can result in a breathy and innefficient whistle head. I avoid this by turning the pieces to more desirable thickness on the lathe. You could sand the diameter down but that may result in uneven surfaces. There are probably other ways to achieve this. I just went out and bought a lathe when I got to that point.

I hope this is of some help to you and others.

Feadoggie

P.S. I don't think of whistle making as a compulsive disorder but rather as a therapy. I find it relaxing.

[Innocent Bystander]

As for the recommendation of putting a piece of plastic under the cap - this is to reduce the height of the windway. The pipe Guido uses has a thinner wall than that which I have listed above. In Guido's designs, the pipe wall thickness determines the windway height. For the pipe listed above that can result in a breathy and innefficient whistle head. I avoid this by turning the pieces to more desirable thickness on the lathe. You could sand the diameter down but that may result in uneven surfaces. There are probably other ways to achieve this. I just went out and bought a lathe when I got to that point.

That's what I thought. My PEX is quite thick - it's barrier pipe - and is 2.5mm thick on the 15mm diameter pipe and 3mm thick on the 22mm diameter. It IS breathy on the larger pipe. So, yes, sticking an extra layer on the inside of the windway cover would reduce that. Or hand-carving your fipples.

[syn whistles]

I've a few questions about Guido Gonzato designs and whistle making in general.

1) I was pretty successfull making a D whistle following Guido's instructions. I made an A barrel for the same head as the D (1/2 inch cpvc bore). The A is kind of quiet. Does anyone think 3/4" would be better for an A? Also, second octave A note on the A barrel is kind of noisy without tonguing if moving to that note from a first octave note. This doesn't happan on the D barrel. Do I need a different head on the A with some measurements different from the D head? Alternately, does this have to do with the narrow bore size.

2) Looks like some folks make low D whistles with 3/4" bore and some with closer to 1" bore. Are the differences purely a matter of volume, or are there other issues.

3) Guido recommends putting a piece of plastic under the cap if the windway is too high. Would it work the same way to just sand down the outside of the head where the cap goes?

4) Are their therapists who deal with Obsessive/Compulsive Whistle Making Disorder (OCWMD)?
Thanks alot.

Hi Dan & others,
here's a few observations from my own endeavours, they may be of some use.
1 The bore : length ratio of a whistle has a great deal to do with its overall response. If I use my own syn whistles as an example, you can see/hear the difference in responses between the E and the A bodies of the same diameter on the same head. The E is very loud and bright whereas the A is a much quieter and mellow whistle. The 'best' responses seen to occur with the D to B bodies in the middle of the range. A bigger bore would be better for your A whistle if you want a louder one.
2 3/4" and 1" are close enough to give similar bore:length ratios. Very often, choice of size is a matter of using whatever material/size is easiest to come by. I use 1" aluminium on low whistles because I personally find I get better results, I'm sure others would find the opposite, but that's fine, after all, making whistles is primarily about making whistles that YOU are happy to play. Try them both and see which gives you the result you want.
3 Yes, but as observed, a lathe is more accurate. Then there are issues with providing a smaller diameter cap, again, a lathe is the way to go.
4 I don't know, but the next step is Compulsive Machinery Aquisition Disorder. Watch out Feadoggie.
5 I'm not sure what the references are to 'shaved fipples' or 'handcarved fipples'. Are we talking about the actual fipple plug or something else?

[Feadoggie]

4 I don't know, but the next step is Compulsive Machinery Aquisition Disorder. Watch out Feadoggie.

Erle, no need to warn me. Actually it's too late to warn me. Ive been at this for a number of years now. A couple hundred whistles have been produced so far. I started with a micro lathe, a Taig. Then I moved to a 7 X12 which works well for high whisltes. Now I am tooling up a 10 X 22 lathe to more comfortably work on low whistles and flutes. The milling machine is next. As I have said before, WHoA is cheap in comparison.

So as not to discourage the rest of the DIY makers here, you can certainly make good whistles without the big machinery. You just need to be resourceful and imaginative in your methods. It's all a great deal of fun in the end.

Feadoggie