Whistles in Irish schools?

mman · Post by **mman** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:46 am

I've seen various places that tin whistles are used as a starter instrument for music classes in Irish schools.

Can anyone tell me any or all of the following:

How young do they start?

What make of whistle is preferred? (Do they require "tweaking"?)

What sort of instructional materials are used? Do the kids learn to read music? (I've heard of tonic sol-fa notation being popular in Ireland too.)
How advanced do they get?

Any differences between the Republic and the 6 counties wrt whistle-teaching in schools?

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:02 am

In National School they start the whistle in third class, around age eight. Any old whistle will do (usually a mix of Generations, Feadog and Clare whistles) and no modification required to play properly. Notation is mostly ABC (not the internet software though), staff notation is taken up in (optional) music classes in secondary school. Unfortunately content of classes pretty much depends on ability and interest of the teacher so can vary wildly from school to school.

JohnnyQ · Post by **JohnnyQ** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:50 pm

Peter is right, they start in third class, use ABC's and no tweaks are required.

In more disadvantaged schools, there is a budget to buy each student a whistle (usu. a Gen) and replace it after inevitable accidents. These schools also seem to be more consistent in providing lessons than schools in more affluent areas (no idea why!). In my wifes school whistle lessons are popular with the students who are tutored by a well-liked local musician. The kids in her class are in their final year - 6th class - and they mostly play mazurkas and polkas, but not many reels or jigs. As usual, some of the more musically gifted students are quite advanced while others (how to put this nicely) are the stuff of nightmares.

No idea about Norn Iron - the curriculum is quite different up to university level.

boatgirl · Post by **boatgirl** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:22 am

I would love to know more about how the students learn the whistle in Ireland. Any idea where on the web I could look? I would like to implement something for the homeschooled kids in the area.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 10:28 am

How I wish we would do this with whistles in the USA.
Vastly more accessible to kids than the recorder,
especially the second octave.

Also the Irish teaching does seem to work.
Anyhow lots of young people in Ireland
play whistle brilliantly. Hard to believe
schooling didn't help.

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:15 am

You can't just shove a whistle in the hands of children and expect it will catch on. If there's no music in the culture around the children, if music is no part of the life around them they will dislike it as much as children in other countries dislike the recorded and the music they are forced to play on that. You'll clearly see that in the majority of Irish children. Only in areas where music is part of the social fabric will you stand any chance of getting them going (a very good and enthusiastic teacher will help towards that as well). The children in the photograph I posted all, without exception, were enrolled in music classes for whistle and other instruments and the tuition they received in school did not make any significant contribution to the level they had reached at the time.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:44 am

The U.S. is a vast country; there are many cultures here and some of them have strong musical traditions.

I think whistles in the schools are a fine idea; certainly for the money you spend on a junker plastic recorder you can get a Feadog, Oak, Clare, or Waltons whistle that will actually play well.

Many people wind up hating the recorder for life, never having encountered anything other than those awful grade-school recorders.

With good whistles, maybe you'd actually introduce some music into lives that don't really have it yet. And maybe even a few of the kids might find their way to traditional music, or at least have a little exposure to it somewhere down the line.

Just some thoughts.

--James

Tootler · Post by **Tootler** » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:25 pm

peeplj wrote:The U.S. is a vast country; there are many cultures here and some of them have strong musical traditions.

I think whistles in the schools are a fine idea; certainly for the money you spend on a junker plastic recorder you can get a Feadog, Oak, Clare, or Waltons whistle that will actually play well.

I agree that in tune whistles are slightly cheaper than in tune recorders, but the difference is not that great. The recorder is fully chromatic, so potentially opens up wider possibilities.

Many people wind up hating the recorder for life, never having encountered anything other than those awful grade-school recorders.

Starting kids off on crappy instruments, whatever they are is a recipe for disaster.

With good whistles, maybe you'd actually introduce some music into lives that don't really have it yet. And maybe even a few of the kids might find their way to traditional music, or at least have a little exposure to it somewhere down the line.

There's two factors here. Firstly not everyone is suited to wind instruments and if you are and are turned off the recorder, I suggest it's as much the the teacher, as the instrument and in such circumstances the whistle would fare no better. I've known primary school teachers who had to teach recorder to their kids and hated it and I am sure, even if they did not intend it, transmitted that dislike to their kids. Looking back, I must have been lucky because I enjoyed learning the recorder and I am sure that was because my teacher was interested herself and encouraged us. Although I stopped when I went to secondary school, I picked it up again when my kids started to learn it and have been playing recorder ever since.

However, don't get me wrong, I am not against the idea of the whistle as a starter instrument. In fact it does have the virtue of being simpler and a little cheaper, but you do need a teacher who is sympathetic to the instrument and to the music played on it or it will end up with just as bad a name as the recorder.

Geoff

Blaydo · Post by **Blaydo** » Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:28 pm

boatgirl wrote:I would love to know more about how the students learn the whistle in Ireland. Any idea where on the web I could look? I would like to implement something for the homeschooled kids in the area.

Peter posted a sample of this commonly used ABC method for beginners in Ireland:

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... ht=#575657