expensive versus cheap whistles

emtor · Post by **emtor** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:15 am

There is some discussion here wether expensive whistles are really worth the extra cost. Some people seem to favour cheap whistles like Generations etc.
In this I do agree, but cheap whistles often come with some flaws that I could gladly do without. Also, some folks seem to think that a cheap whistle can be "broken in" by the player.
If what they mean is that bad tecnique must be dealt with by the player, then I agree in this. However,-not all the bad characteristics of a whistle is the players fault. Some are simply the fault of the whistle.
I've made some soundclips of two Feadóg D whistles . . . one is straight from the box, and the other is tweaked. These soundclips can serve as examples of why some people prefer expensive whistles.

Regarding all the samples: First a untweaked Feadóg is played,-then a tweaked Feadóg.

Soundsample #1:
The second octave D-note is played, first on a untweaked Feadóg, and then on a tweaked Feadóg.
http://vargaswhistles.com/webshop/mp3/D_note.mp3
Note the rasping high D on the untweaked whistle, and how the tweaked whistle sounds cleaner.

Soundsample #2:
The second octave G-note is played, first on a untweaked Feadóg, and then on a tweaked Feadóg.
http://vargaswhistles.com/webshop/mp3/high_G.mp3
Cheap whistles usually have problems with this note. As you can hear, the tweaked whistle has no problems with the high G-note.

Soundsample #3:
The scale is played, first on a untweaked Feadóg, and then on a tweaked Feadóg.
http://vargaswhistles.com/webshop/mp3/scale.mp3
Note how the tweaked whistle has no problems as you climb up the scale.

So folks . . . when it comes to the rasping sound of the untweaked Feadóg, do you think it's possible to get around that by improving your technique?
Even if it was possible (which I seriously doubt), why bother when you can buy a hand-made whistle or a tweaked one that makes you play decent and clean notes from day one . . . . . . .

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:56 am

I have never come across any Feadog, Oak or Generation sounding like that in the second octave unless really really overblown so I wouldn't think of a whistle sounding that bad as one with a common problem . But if you can fix problems as you find them, go for it.

burnsbyrne · Post by **burnsbyrne** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:58 am

What kind of tweak did you do? Replace the blade, sticky tack unter the windway?
Mike

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:27 am

Peter Laban wrote:I have never come across any Feadog, Oak or Generation sounding like that in the second octave unless really really overblown so I wouldn't think of a whistle sounding that bad as one with a common problem . But if you can fix problems as you find them, go for it.

Boy, I have....it's not common, though. Especially that total failure in the second octave going up the scale. The presence of some raspiness seems pretty common to me, though.

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:42 am

burnsbyrne wrote:What kind of tweak did you do? Replace the blade, sticky tack unter the windway?
Mike

Go back up to emtor's thread, and click on his www.

emtor · Post by **emtor** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:16 am

I've been buying boxes of Feadógs for years now, and they do sound like the untweaked ones in the soundsamples. That's why I started tweaking them.
BTW,-I buy those with the green fipples and the brass shafts. I know that Feadóg makes whistles with black fipples too, but they're not available here anymore. Maybe there's a difference between the green/brass and the black/nickel whistles . . . i don't know.

Regarding the tweak: The cavity underneath the windway is filled up with epoxy-resin, and the soundblade position is changed not by filing the top or adding to the bottom of the soundblade, but by splitting the mouthpiece in two halves, and then gluing the halves back together so that the soundblade-half gets a different position compared to the original design.
Lastly, the fipple is encased in epoxy-resin to give it back its original strength.

wd40 · Post by **wd40** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:44 am

It seems like Generations are constantly dissed for poor quality control. My experience has been different. I have a nickle d gen. that ain't bad at all and a feadog that was terrible until I did the blade tweak. Ya pay your 7bucks and ya get 7 bucks worth.

crookedtune · Post by **crookedtune** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:49 am

CP, but interesting. I think we all agree that tweaking can help the cheap whistles.

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:47 am

Wanderer wrote:
Boy, I have....it's not common, though. Especially that total failure in the second octave going up the scale. The presence of some raspiness seems pretty common to me, though.

So you agree with me the assertion that all feadogs sound like the ones in the soundclips is not a realistic representation. I find cheap whistles more often to sound like this and that's why I keep being contrary about this whenever the old 'they can only be played after tweaking' chestnut is pulled out because it is just not the reality.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:02 am

Peter Laban wrote:
Wanderer wrote:
Boy, I have....it's not common, though. Especially that total failure in the second octave going up the scale. The presence of some raspiness seems pretty common to me, though.
So you agree with me the assertion that all feadogs sound like the ones in the soundclips is not a realistic representation. I find cheap whistles more often to sound like this and that's why I keep being contrary about this whenever the old 'they can only be played after tweaking' chestnut is pulled out because it is just not the reality.

Yup, Peter.. That sounds about right to me, too.

Not a sound I personally care for, though.

crookedtune · Post by **crookedtune** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:40 am

Wanderer wrote:Yup, Peter.. That sounds about right to me, too.

Not a sound I personally care for, though.

And this is where we always end up. It comes down to the ear of the beholder.

Peter's playing is lovely, but I'm among the group that would be doctoring the whistle to my own particular tastes.

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:57 am

The clip I linked to above was Brid Donohue playing an air which I recorded in 1998. Whatever way I play was not represented here.

monkey587 · Post by **monkey587** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:47 pm

I've had 4 randomly selected untweaked feadogs in my day, and none of them sounded that bad even when I was a total beginner.

dDave · Post by **dDave** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:03 pm

Howdy,

I recently bought a little black whistle. It was scratchy and weak in the lower notes. Not very pleasing to play. I though it might be extra flashing in the windway, but nope, it was clear. But there were slight molding lines in the opening in front of the ramp. I gently scraped these off with the backside of an exacto blade, and lo! The LBW is now a dandy little player.

I am now firmly convinced that all these recorder wonks are correct and that voicing is a game of hundredths if not thousands of an inch. A mass produced whistle is going to just going to have some slop, and even if it's in the hundreths of an inch range it's going to make a difference.

Best,

Dave

a.mellifera · Post by **a.mellifera** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:32 pm

Now, I'm rather new to whistles, so anything I say should be taken with a grain of salt--

I started on a feadog, and did the bluetak tweak. It sounded purer, but flat--not intonation wise, but it didn't seem to have the overtones it had before. After a few months I removed the bluetak and have been playing without it. It is more difficult to control, and has more "noise", but is also more flexible.

I've been accumulating more whistles, experimenting, and hadn't played the feadog for a while. After listening to the examples posted above, I took out the old feadog (now untweaked) and tried it. My D sounds like emtor's tweaked whistle, and the G sounded like the untweaked whistle--until I played for about 15 minutes and adjusted to the whistle. Now it's kind of in-between--more noise than emtor's tweaked whistle but less than the untweaked whistle. When I play it with the same breath pressure that I use on my Mellow D, it sounds like the untweaked whistle. I'm not familiar enough with the different whistles to adjust instantly, but I imagine that someone who's been playing for years, and knows their whistles, would be able to do that.

"So folks . . . when it comes to the rasping sound of the untweaked Feadóg, do you think it's possible to get around that by improving your technique?
Even if it was possible (which I seriously doubt), why bother when you can buy a hand-made whistle or a tweaked one that makes you play decent and clean notes from day one . . . . . . ."

I think that some of the rasp is inherent to the whistle. As to why one would want to play a raspy whistle, I think that during certain tunes, especially airs, pushing a note almost to the breaking point sounds very poignant. Hopefully some day I will have the control to get the rasp in and out of my playing at will.

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