O'Riordan - Is it worth that much?

[patrickh]

Check this out:

http://tinyurl.com/yz5z2s (link to ebay page)

That is alot of dough for one whistle. Is this whistle really worth more than an Abell C/D/Eb complete set? Is this price in part due to collector's interest? If so, will Thin Weasel's follow this course or are there too many of those available second hand?

Just some random musings...

[Unseen122]

If I reember correctly there was a Thin Weasel that went for around $800 a couple months ago.

[Dale]

Check this out:

http://tinyurl.com/yz5z2s (link to ebay page)

That is alot of dough for one whistle. Is this whistle really worth more than an Abell C/D/Eb complete set? Is this price in part due to collector's interest? If so, will Thin Weasel's follow this course or are there too many of those available second hand?

Just some random musings...

I own one of these in D and there's also a C tube for it. I certainly do treasure the set and I love playing it. But, yes, the current price on ebay ($610.00 at this writing), is very much about collector interest as opposed to it being $610 worth of actual instrument. I hope that doesn't sound as though I'm diminishing Pat's work--that's not my intent.

[PhilO]

Check this out:

http://tinyurl.com/yz5z2s (link to ebay page)

That is alot of dough for one whistle. Is this whistle really worth more than an Abell C/D/Eb complete set? Is this price in part due to collector's interest? If so, will Thin Weasel's follow this course or are there too many of those available second hand?

Just some random musings...

I own one of these in D and there's also a C tube for it. I certainly do treasure the set and I love playing it. But, yes, the current price on ebay ($610.00 at this writing), is very much about collector interest as opposed to it being $610 worth of actual instrument. I hope that doesn't sound as though I'm diminishing Pat's work--that's not my intent.

Pat himself doesn't think they're worth that, or he'd charge more. In any event they're wonderful whistles and he's a real pleasure to deal with.

As for collectibility, that market doesn't always go the way you'd think. Sometimes a death or the number of items in play lead to a result the exact opposite of what one might expect; that's why I only collect things I really like and not necessarily as an investment.

Philo

[brewerpaul]

I've never understood the collector mentality that entices people to pay obscene amounts of money for things. With all due respect to Pat (and LOT of respect is due) it's JUST A WHISTLE! A first rate whistle to be sure, but as far as a playable instrument goes, you can buy several first rate whistles for that kind of money. Same goes for an $800 Thin Weasel.
I think I speak for most whistle makers when I say that we price our instruments to reflect the cost of the materials plus the time and labor expended on making our instruments to bring in a fair and reasonable profit. We don't say "Let's see how much money we can soak gullible whistle players for this week". I for one would be embarassed if I saw one of my whistles being sold for such overly inflated prices. I know, caveat emptor and all that, but it just seems wrong.

[jim stone]

JUST a whistle?

Alright, alright, I've stopped hyperventilating
for awhile.

Not wrong. Supply and demand. Auctions determine their
own buying price. People are free to bid what they
want. Doc didn't make the whistle.
OK to go for the market value of what you sell.
Some things are prized because they are rare
and beautiful. Please keep in
mind that Doc is supporting umpteen kids of his
own plus an orphanage in Haiti. Note that he
will take trades.

I guess the American economy isn't doing so badly.

[Mitch]

yeah,

There's a lot of tension and elasticity in the whistle market

But it's not just the collecting - the fact that a functional object has been crafted by a particular practicioner has some value - positive or minus. Perhaps the maker was modest or boastful, perhaps a cosmic gong sounded the creation of a masterpiece by Joe Nothing in a slum in Bhudapest. Maybe a buyer heard the bell, maybe Doc Jones thinks he heard it in a vision.

Stuff has value to people. Maybe it will be bought for satanic rituals or to herald the second coming. Who knows what who values? We pay acordingly to our desire or need.

A good maker, a good seller ... If it's worth it to you ?

There was a parable about this - something about paying pickers in a vinyard - it all had to do with the man with the money and nothing to do with the pickers who wanted to grumble about each other.

[colomon]

To me, I think the defining sign something is wrong is paying $600+ for a whistle you've never gotten to try. (At least, I'm pretty sure these EBay deals are not "full refund if you decide you don't like the voicing on the whistle".) These are hand made whistles we're talking about, every one is a little bit different.

Case in point -- the reason I don't have one of the O'Riordans with a Generation-style body is that I tried a half dozen of them and didn't like any of them half as well as my Traveller D. But I know three superb whistle players who have (or at least, at one point had) both, and they all tell me their Generation-bodied whistles are better. Though one of them did say something along the lines of "You've got one of the good ones" when she tried my Traveller D.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, it doesn't strike me as strange to pay $600 for a whistle you've tried and loved. I've tried a couple of whistles over the years that I'd jump at the opportunity to buy at that price. But $600 for a whistle you've never seen before, simply because its maker has a good reputation? That's insane. The very fact someone is willing to sell it hints ominously that it might not be "one of the good ones."

But then, I think the people who have 20 or 30 $100+ instruments are a bit crazy too, so what do I know?

[PhilO]

JUST a whistle?

Alright, alright, I've stopped hyperventilating
for awhile.

Not wrong. Supply and demand. Auctions determine their
own buying price. People are free to bid what they
want. Doc didn't make the whistle.
OK to go for the market value of what you sell.
Some things are prized because they are rare
and beautiful. Please keep in
mind that Doc is supporting umpteen kids of his
own plus an orphanage in Haiti. Note that he
will take trades.

Jim - Pretty sure here is just a theoretical debate as to generalities of collectibility, during which I know that I never and doubt that others were pinpointing or even thinking of Doc specifically. A lot of us have dealt with him and come away with only the most positive feelings. And yes I find that dealers and makers such as Doc and new entry Ian who take trades display a wonderfully stimulating attitude towards the whole whistle market, i.e., it's not all about money, but rather interests and fun.

Philo

I guess the American economy isn't doing so badly.

[Romulo]

.

But $600 for a whistle you've never seen before, simply because its maker has a good reputation? That's insane.

Beginning to regret to have paid $800 for an O'Riordan C/D set (Blackwood).

[jim stone]

OK I'm being a little defensive because Doc has treated me
(and others here, I reckon) with considerable generosity.
I appreciate, of course, that nobody means to deny that.

I add that one probably could return this whistle
if one found one really didn't want it.

Also I think that, while one might possibly characterize
collecting as foolish or imprudent, 'wrong'
is perhaps more than is warranted. I don't
think these transactions are immoral,
doubly so in this case. But I don't suppose
anyone meant that either.

Best to all, Jim

[manu.bande]

In Italy we use to say : " vivi e lascia vivere" , wich literally means "Live and let to Live " ,
so to me it means that people can do whatever they want to do unless that their actions hurt someone, so everybody is free to spend as much as he/she likes , even if the whistle in question will reach more then 1000 USD .
Of course I would never spend so much for a whistle , but just for a simple reason , I cannot afford to spend so much , otherwise... ?!?!

But sure to me it's much better spend 600 or plus USD for a whistle than for a shirt made in cotton , linen or silk signed from some well known italian brand (for instance) !
The whistle can be played and can be keeped forever , and can be used as a tool for making people feeling relax and happy , but the shirt still just a piece of fabric that soon or later will be just throw in the garbage can , and probably the owner of the shirt bought it just to tell his friends that he has a very expensive shirt by that famous brand , that's make people just jelous or angry !

So after all buying musical instruments for any price is much better than buy other things , at least is more understandable for me!

Manuel

[jim stone]

Also the whistle can be sold again, perhaps at a profit.
The money is often recoverable. That's what I tell
my wife, anyhow.

[Scott McCallister]

I've never understood the collector mentality that entices people to pay obscene amounts of money for things. With all due respect to Pat (and LOT of respect is due) it's JUST A WHISTLE! A first rate whistle to be sure, but as far as a playable instrument goes, you can buy several first rate whistles for that kind of money. Same goes for an $800 Thin Weasel.
I think I speak for most whistle makers when I say that we price our instruments to reflect the cost of the materials plus the time and labor expended on making our instruments to bring in a fair and reasonable profit. We don't say "Let's see how much money we can soak gullible whistle players for this week". I for one would be embarassed if I saw one of my whistles being sold for such overly inflated prices. I know, caveat emptor and all that, but it just seems wrong.

Yet the day will come when $1,000 changes hands for a Busman...

[Doc Jones]

Hi Gang,

Just wanted to clarify a point or two since I've been mentioned (and thank-you for the kind words by the way).

The Irish Flute Store exists for two* reasons.

1. To allow folks a venue through which they can swap what they have for what they want and try lots of differnt things in their search for their dream instrument.

2. To promote support of the Foyer De Sion Orphange in Haiti (where 5 of my 9 adopted children got their start).

3. To have a lot of instruments coming through my house so I can play them.

4. To take my lovely wife (and mother of 13) on a date every week or so. She likes lasagna. Afterwards we sometimes buy a fish for her aquarium.

I spend about Twenty hours a week providing the service and bring in what I could earn in an hour or two working as a veterinarian (I are one ya know!).

Now, as to selling expensive goodies...

Here's the typical scenario. When I see something particularly lovely for sale and someone doesn't buy it for a few days I begin to ask myself. "Why isn't someone buying that particularly lovely something?".

Two Reasons come to mind:

1. The seller is not trusted

2. They ain't got the dough.

Usually it's #2. So, if it doesn't get bought I buy it. I will then re-sell it through the store usually for about what I paid for it. Almost without exception, A $300 whistle will go for a hundred bucks and two Burkes or some such. I then sell the Burkes for a few bucks more than I bought them for and I'm back in lasagna money (and some customer who didn't have $300 cash is very happy).

Now, if I may continue to blather, I'll give my opinion on O'Riordan whistles.

They are truly lovely...as good as any whistle on the market with a tone that is sweet and pure without being boring. In a blind-folded study I don't think anyone would find their sound to be $600 better than a Burke. But, they are hand-made, wooden and made by (from all accounts) a truly lovely gentleman. They are a bit scarce and highly collectible. For some reason people like to buy things that are a bit scarce and highly collectible. For public disclosure I paid $600 for each of the O'Riordans currently on eBay and have the reserves set at $599.

My final point is that it's terrible shame that whistle makers aren't better compensated. Whistle making is one of the few vocations where you can be at the top of your field and barely make a living.

Try to buy a decent wooden flute for less than $600. I doubt there is a flute out there that took more time and care to make than an O'Riordan whistle (or a Busman ).

OK, I'm done. Everyone go buy something from The Irish flute Store. It will make you feel happy inside. If you're so inclined go bid the heck out of the O'Riordans on eBay ( here's the link: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZpjandlbj ). If I make much more than $600 the profits will be going into little Haitian bellies anyway.

(Dale, feel free to count this shameless self-promotion as my CP for the month ).

Doc
Irishflutestore.com

* Remember, there are three kinds of people in the world, those who can count and those who can't.