variations

[swood]

I would like the names of some tunes that have variations for each part and where to find them. After seaching for hours, I only found The Kid of Kisco Mt.

[Teri-K]

I would like the names of some tunes that have variations for each part and where to find them. After seaching for hours, I only found The Kid of Kisco Mt.

Henrik Norbeck's ABC tune collection contains many with variations.
http://www.norbeck.nu/abc/ I couldn't begin to name each and every tune though. If you have ABCMus, you can enter in a search for the text "variation" and all tunes that have them will be listed.

If you don't have ABC, or aren't familiar with the program(s), Henrick's page has links and explanations.

Teri

[Bloomfield]

I can't help thinking that you are trying to put the cart before the horse. While there are some tunes that are basically set variations (like the Gold Ring), in ITM variations don't get written out (except sometimes for analysis), and all the good players prefer notation that is purged of variation. Some tunes of course exist in different versions. I would do my research by listening for variations rather than by looking for notations.

[Cayden]

I would go as far as saying all tunes have variations. In the hands of a good player.

Not variations of the classical kind but subtle, ofen microscopic, shifts in the tune, a bit of playing with the rhythm or maybe a bit large scale melodic variation. This is part and parcel of traditional playing and is a continous part of every playing of a tune. It's something that happens on the fly, not something set in stone to be learned by heart.


As always the advice is to look at the good old <a href="http://www.rogermillington.com/tunetoc/ ... nscription page</a> for some approaches in the hands of a number of players.

Also keep an eye out for Bro Steve's tune page which is now in the process of being recorded

[KDMARTINKY]

There is a tune by Davy Spillane called "Fiona", I have finally got it down, but it has mixed tempos. At first its a very tricky tune to learn, but worth the effort.

[brewerpaul]

Where did you find The Kid Of Kisco Mount???
That would describe me, since I actually grew up in Mt. Kisco ! It's about 30 miles north of NY City. Same town that gave The Maids Of Mt. Kisco it's name.
Where can I find the sheet music?

[TonyHiggins]

The Dance Music of Willie Clancy is a collection book of transcriptions of his pipe playing. It includes variations on the repeats.

I've found The Monaghan Jig abc's transcribed from Mary Bergin's playing with significant variations (found it at JC's Tunefinder).

If you do your own transcriptions of cd music, you'll find a lot of variations. Use a slow speed software to transcribe.
Tony

[IDAwHOa]

I would go as far as saying all tunes have variations. In the hands of a good player.

Sheesh, I am a crappy player and my tunes NEVER sound the same twice!!!!

[colomon]

all the good players prefer notation that is purged of variation.

Interesting quote. Do you have anything to back it up? My impression is that most good players don't spend much time thinking about notation one way or the other.

Certainly as a player, I agree 100%, at least if there is only the one time through the tune written out. Nothing is more annoying than trying to sort out whether the notes written out are the essence of the tune or some variation.

On the other hand, I think there is a lot of value to the detailed study of what variations are played, ala the transcription page linked above. It serves a different purpose, but still a very useful one.

And on the third hand, as a composer, I wish there were some easy way of using notation to capture "these are some nice variations" without writing everything a second time. (Maybe hyperlinks to alternate ABCs or something? Hmmm....)

[Bloomfield]

all the good players prefer notation that is purged of variation.

Interesting quote. Do you have anything to back it up? My impression is that most good players don't spend much time thinking about notation one way or the other.

Anecdotal evidence. Every good player I know has stacks of tune books, transcribed tunes, self-made or swapped, and so forth. They are used as reference materials, mind you, more to look up tunes and to compare them, and only rarely used to learn a tune.

[bradhurley]

I think the point is that good players want to learn the basic structure of the tune first, and then apply their own variations and ornamentation (or borrow great variations from other players).

A good way to start working on variations is to learn the basic tune until you know it by heart, and then listen to recordings of other people playing the same tune. You'll hear the variations more easily then, since you're familiar with the tune's basic structure.

I don't see much point in looking for transcriptions of tunes that have all the variations written out...maybe that's a useful tool in the beginning when you're trying to get your head 'round the whole concept of variations, but once you've been playing a while the idea is to come up with your own variations -- that's the key to the kingdom, really.

I was just listening to a recording of Catherine McEvoy playing The Humours of Lissadell, a tune I've played for years but never really explored in terms of variations. Her version took my breath away (as her versions of tunes generally do...I think she's one of the most inspiring Irish musicians playing today), it was full of variations that never even would have occurred to me. Totally transformed the tune for me, I'll never hear it the same way again, and that's a big part of the magic of this music.

Another great person to listen to for variations is Caoimhin O'Raghallaigh, who spends many hours exploring the tunes he plays. His basic process is to sit down in a little room (his words) and play the same tune over and over again for an hour or more. After the first 20 times or so he runs out of ideas for things to do to the tune, and after that the tune starts suggesting ideas to him.

[colomon]

I don't see much point in looking for transcriptions of tunes that have all the variations written out...maybe that's a useful tool in the beginning when you're trying to get your head 'round the whole concept of variations, but once you've been playing a while the idea is to come up with your own variations -- that's the key to the kingdom, really.

I'm all in favor of coming up with your own variations -- but I don't think you can do that properly without understanding some of the traditional variations on a tune. Indeed, there's some sense in which the traditional variations ARE the tune, and if you don't understand at least some of them, you don't really understand the tune.

And personally, I find figuring out exactly what notes are being played on a particular little tricky variation to frequently be very gruelling work, much harder than picking up the general flow of the tune by ear. So I'm all in favor of good, detailed transcriptions; they would be a very useful learning aid for me, at any rate. (In fact, this makes me regret how much I've neglected the transcriptions in Grey Larsen's book. Though most of what is there is players or tunes I'm not particularly interested in at the moment.)

I was just listening to a recording of Catherine McEvoy playing The Humours of Lissadell, a tune I've played for years but never really explored in terms of variations. Her version took my breath away (as her versions of tunes generally do...I think she's one of the most inspiring Irish musicians playing today), it was full of variations that never even would have occurred to me. Totally transformed the tune for me, I'll never hear it the same way again, and that's a big part of the magic of this music.

What album is this on? My database says I've only got that tune from Bothy Band, Teada, James Morrison, and Kevin Burke.

Another great person to listen to for variations is Caoimhin O'Raghallaigh, who spends many hours exploring the tunes he plays. His basic process is to sit down in a little room (his words) and play the same tune over and over again for an hour or more. After the first 20 times or so he runs out of ideas for things to do to the tune, and after that the tune starts suggesting ideas to him.

I know Al Purcell had some bit of wisdom about playing tunes through 20 times straight -- something about once you've done that you will attain mastery of it. I've only got it second-hand years ago from an unreliable source. Maybe Bustapipuh knows it properly?

[bradhurley]

What are we doing online at 9am on a Saturday morning?!?! Oh well...

I'm all in favor of coming up with your own variations -- but I don't think you can do that properly without understanding some of the traditional variations on a tune. Indeed, there's some sense in which the traditional variations ARE the tune, and if you don't understand at least some of them, you don't really understand the tune.

Yes, good point, and if working from transcriptions is better for you than trying to catch them by ear (or using the Amazing Slow Downer), then that's fine...in a case like that I can see where transcriptions might be useful. But I still think listening is better...in part because you have to work harder and listen more closely, which builds your listening skills. When I was a kid I was really into birding, and I wanted to be able to identify all the birds in my area by their songs and calls. I bought some records and tapes to learn from, but I found that the only calls I remembered were the ones I hunted down myself: when I was out in the woods, if I heard a call or song that I didn't recognize, I quietly stalked down the bird until I had it in my binoculars. Having gone through all that effort, I never forgot which song went with which bird.

What album is this on? My database says I've only got that tune from Bothy Band, Teada, James Morrison, and Kevin Burke.

Sorry, it's on a private recording of the tunes she taught at Friday Harbor Music Camp this past March. But anyway, even if you listen to the versions that you have listed there, you'll hear plenty of variations, as well as different settings for the basic tune.