Low reeds in sessions?? melody/tenor-sax.. or bass clarinet?

[Zubivka]

The Mesquer monthly session gains momentum, and every month brings new players, some driving over a hundred miles just to attend it.

Last Friday, there was some suprise when this guy, better known as GHP piper pulled from his case a... tenor-size saxophone.

That bass soft voice, starting reels and jigs at session speed was superb. I never knew one could play sax that fast.

Then I started spying on his fingerings, now wait a minute... sure it WAS of course a tenor sax in C, aka "Melody sax".

Well it fit the session just right, and its sound blended better and more "trad" all in all than that loud tenor banjo...

[dlovrien]

I play tenor (in Bb) with my ITM band, although I haven't had the nerve to bring it to an open session yet. Anything that I would normally play on C whistle, I can pick up the tenor and use essentially the same fingerings. Works especially well for stuff in D minor (E minor fingerings on C whistle and tenor).

It really does add a new dimension - that "bass soft voice" as you described it. Playing an octave lower than the fiddles and flutes, it can really fill things out.

[vomitbunny]

Hmmm. Ya know, I have a couple of bugles (valved, a bari and a mellophone) that could use some excersize. They happen to be in G, and d is a very good key for them.

[Zubivka]

Reviving this thread with a quote, and a question.

I play tenor (in Bb) with my ITM band, although I haven't had the nerve to bring it to an open session yet. Anything that I would normally play on C whistle, I can pick up the tenor and use essentially the same fingerings. Works especially well for stuff in D minor (E minor fingerings on C whistle and tenor).

It really does add a new dimension - that "bass soft voice" as you described it. Playing an octave lower than the fiddles and flutes, it can really fill things out.

The power of a modern tenor may be a problem in a session. Also, they do tend to be a tad slow.

Hence my question: does anyone here play the Bass Clarinet? Quieter, mellower, supposed a bit quicker than the Tenor Sax, while covering all its tessitures (and more). And way cheaper if used, too...

[tuaz]

I've tried playing an alto at our closed-door slow session, with a towel stuffed into the bell to mute it. It's too loud unmuted.

It's not that easy, though, if you're trying to play the piece by ear without prior practice, because it's a transposing instrument. You're playing completely different fingering from the one you use on the whistle because you're playing on a diff scale. E.g. I had to play B major fingering for D major tunes.

Whenever it got too difficult, I played whistle.

But there are interesting possibilities for sax in a session. With appropriate articulation, you can get the bounce or rhythm of the tune going. Plus, when everyone else in our small slow session group is either on whistle or flute (hey, we're probably the only session grp in Singapore), it adds some interest to the otherwise high-pitched sea of sound to have a lower sound underpin it all.

Since we don't have a chordal instrument in the grp, I can also play notes that suggest the chords (ie, bassline). It's not so much harmony/counterpoint but playing in a tuba-ish way that fits with the bounce/accents of the tune.

[dlovrien]

Hence my question: does anyone here play the Bass Clarinet? Quieter, mellower, supposed a bit quicker than the Tenor Sax, while covering all its tessitures (and more). And way cheaper if used, too...

My experience is that bass clarinet is more sluggish, if not mechanically, then in breath response. It can certainly give you the same tessitura (plus an extra half octave of low range!) but I think it would be difficult to keep up with the melody on jigs and reels.

I've been officially invited to bring my tenor sax to the open and closed sessions at Trinity Hall... we'll see how it goes with that gang.

[Zubivka]

Thanks, dlovrien. Your comment on the sluggishness of the air column vs big/small pads is interesting.

I've tried playing an alto at our closed-door slow session, with a towel stuffed into the bell to mute it. It's too loud unmuted.

It's not that easy, though, if you're trying to play the piece by ear without prior practice, because it's a transposing instrument. You're playing completely different fingering from the one you use on the whistle because you're playing on a diff scale. E.g. I had to play B major fingering for D major tunes.

¿ Did you check the first post up thar Î

Alti are pretty resonant, for sure. That's a further interest of C-Melody saxes, the non-transposing one. Jazzmen say they sound "stuffy", with their full-leather pads or soft resonators, but also with their vintage mouthpieces. It probably explains why the one I heard in a real small session did the job perfectly, soft and smooth and certainly not as a "brass horn".

As for the fingering, a C concert-pitch sax plays almost like a D whistle. Well, ok the F# will be sorta xxx oxo o, else it's the same.

Seems like you can get some on eBay, at much lower prices than a decent Tenor of the same vintage.

PS: Anyone else with bass-clarinet experience?

[Whitmores75087]

You are also welcome to being it to the open session at Tipperary Inn, Dave. It's at 2:00 pm Sunday afternoons. It's a lower musical level than usually shows up at Trinity Hall, though.

[janice]

I play bass clarinet...but not IRTrad on it, that's for sure. It overblows at the 12th, which along with a relatively slow mechanism and the transposition makes it pretty awkward to play jigs and reels. But I'm sure it's possible...

[BrassBlower]

Hey, Zoob, at first glance I thought this was "Lou Reed at Session"!

*Hums tune to "Take a Walk on the Wild Side"*

[glauber]

I think the tuba is one of the most promising instruments for playing Irish music on. Alas! still sadly neglected.

We should also work towards procuring a better repertory, because frankly, the reels and jigs all sound the same, and who wants to play polkas? At a very minimum, we should strive for

• more cromaticism
• more variety in rhythms and speeds
• more room for improvisation
• more interesting poliphony
• internationalization of the repertory -- break the Irish monopoly

Let's break the chains of tradition! Take Irish music to the next level!

[kevin m.]

Yes,I have BASS CLARINET experience.
In fact,I still own one.
Let me explain.As a late teenager,I discovered JAZZ,and soon became a great Eric Dolphy fan.
I bought myself a student Bass Clarinet as a 21st birthday present to myself.
Yup,you can do 4 octaves on bass clarinet,with harmonics ((I could,self taught).
At that time(late 70's/early 80's) I wanted to play with Derek Bailey,Han Bennink,Leo Smith or Milford Graves (I'd be VERY surprised if anyone recognised those names!)
I got to play support to Japanese Trumpeter, Toshinori Kondo.Very nice guy.

[Zubivka]

BrassBlower: it did sound similar (Loo Reed) in me head when I wrote the header.
But you name a good standard to work on...

Glauber: yeah, really...
(btw, you forgot to ask for harmony, with A, and G whistles to break that unisson (unisession?)
Also, if sessions admit both tenor banjos and mandolines, how come we got no contrabass balalaïka?

Kevin: seems like you started the clarinets standstill from the bass one? So tenor sax (Bb or melody) or the Bb-ig smokin' wooden/tin pipe, would you say as best fitting, easiest learnt?

[spittin_in_the_wind]

OH GOD, NOT BASS CLARINET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Wombat]

Yes,I have BASS CLARINET experience.
In fact,I still own one.
Let me explain.As a late teenager,I discovered JAZZ,and soon became a great Eric Dolphy fan.
...................
At that time(late 70's/early 80's) I wanted to play with Derek Bailey,Han Bennink,Leo Smith or Milford Graves (I'd be VERY surprised if anyone recognised those names!)
.

Well prepare to be VERY surprised Kevin. I not only know those guys, I own records of at least three of them. I'd have to check for Leo Smith. In fact I probably have a lot of records on which Bennink plays as a sideman. I'd have quite a bit of Milford Graves too, with Cecil Taylor and with the New York Art Quartet (from memory—I'm at work and can't check.) I have records of most of the more progressive European (based) jazz musicians of that and later generations: Wheeler, Westbrook, Collier, Vesala, Stanko, Komeda, Solal .... et al.

I still love Dolphy. I imagine his characteristic intonation would raise a few eyebrows at sessions. Floating intonation is OK, but not intonation that floats quite that much.

I play regularly with a sax player—tenor, alto, baritone—but not ITM. Recording is fine but for rehearsing I need to mic whistles and concertina. Another friend is a very fine clarinet and bass clarinet player (orchestra principal level) who is keen to record with me—lucky me—but as yet we haven't been able to find a time that fits in with her very busy schedule. This would not be ITM either.