OT: See what happens with "SERIOUS" Music

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Thu May 01, 2003 2:33 pm

There is an ongoing opera about JERRY SPRINGER in London by the Royal National Theatre!!! He'll be right up there with I Pagliacci, Don Juan, and Leon Klinghoffer.

When I was in music school, some preferred the term "serious" music over "classical." Yeah......

Guess this is post-Structuralist too, in a way. Apparently they are borrowing some music from Bach and Bacharach!?!? In the MIX!

The Confuzzled Weeekender

Post by **Nanohedron** » Thu May 01, 2003 3:31 pm

This is the fall of Western civilization as we know it.

janice · Post by **janice** » Thu May 01, 2003 3:47 pm

Surely you're kidding...(and don't call me Shirley)

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Thu May 01, 2003 3:48 pm

Springer, the scandalous politician turned television sleaze-fest organizer, turned country and western opening-act, turned opera? Truly a bizarre age we live in.

Soineanta · Post by **Soineanta** » Thu May 01, 2003 3:56 pm

Begin Random Comment
Jerry Springer lives in my town. I've seen him several times at various theatres and stores. Strange, he actually seems like a very nice guy. Maybe he's actually the TV Springer's good twin.
End Random Comment

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu May 01, 2003 4:33 pm

I don't see anything bizarre about this. Beethoven's Ode to Joy was taken from a German drinking song; La Boheme was turned into Rent; Richard Strauss's Thus Spake Zarathustra became a theme for a proto-human bashing in a skull; Johann Strauss Jr's Blue Danube became the theme for a zero-g ballet type thing; John Cage made "serious" music from (perceived) silence and also from microphones placed on streetcorners in New York; Rautavera wrote the Cantus Arcticus for strings and birds.

Besides, whoever said opera has to be "serious" music? Look at Gilbert and Sullivan; they didn't take themselves too seriously. I don't think Charles Ives did, either.

BTW, I did have a good chuckle when I first heard about this "Opera," and did shake my head and do a HUH?, I've just had a few months to think about it.

littlejohngael · Post by **littlejohngael** » Thu May 01, 2003 4:41 pm

Yeah, I heard about this. For my reaction, please see Nanohedron's avatar.

Little John

cowtime · Post by **cowtime** » Thu May 01, 2003 7:54 pm

But how did they teach my neighbors to sing ?

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Thu May 01, 2003 11:09 pm

I wonder if any of those studio stooges that hold people back from brawling (barely) get an aria?

"I'm a Misunderstood Minder but my thoughts are complex
A red heart beats under this blue tshirt"

I'll let Walden finish/improve it.

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Fri May 02, 2003 4:27 am

The Weekenders wrote: I'll let Walden finish/improve it.

That's a Doozy of an assignment, Week! Expanding on an aria about Springer's bouncers. Heh heh, that's a funny term, "Springer's bouncers."

Lovely art music shall be had once we get it done, though, methinks.

fluter_d · Post by **fluter_d** » Fri May 02, 2003 6:58 am

cowtime wrote:But how did they teach my neighbors to sing ?

WyoBadger · Post by **WyoBadger** » Fri May 02, 2003 7:31 am

chas wrote:I don't see anything bizarre about this. Beethoven's Ode to Joy was taken from a German drinking song; La Boheme was turned into Rent; Richard Strauss's Thus Spake Zarathustra became a theme for a proto-human bashing in a skull; Johann Strauss Jr's Blue Danube became the theme for a zero-g ballet type thing; John Cage made "serious" music from (perceived) silence and also from microphones placed on streetcorners in New York; Rautavera wrote the Cantus Arcticus for strings and birds.

Besides, whoever said opera has to be "serious" music? Look at Gilbert and Sullivan; they didn't take themselves too seriously. I don't think Charles Ives did, either.

BTW, I did have a good chuckle when I first heard about this "Opera," and did shake my head and do a HUH?, I've just had a few months to think about it.

hee hee hee Well said. The line between classical music and fun music is blurry indeed. Perhaps even non existant.

fatveg · Post by **fatveg** » Fri May 02, 2003 5:44 pm

Well, if 10 years ago you would have told me that some crazy guy would make an opera about Nixon's visit to China I would have laughed at you.

Today, it is one of my favorite operas.

I'll reserve judgement until I hear/see the Springer one (but I've never seen a Springer show, so it'll probably go over my head).

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Fri May 02, 2003 10:02 pm

I believe that when music gets serious, it stops evolving. It becomes a part of history... The rules that define how it must be played in order to preserve its integrity become more important than the music itself. My Sister is a Serious (classical

) violinist. We talk about this subject often.

I first became aware of this about 12 years ago. I used to go to a Blues club in Underground Atlanta all the time. A lot of those guys (Lucky Peterson, Gatemouth Brown, etc.) Put on one heck of a show. They played tight and together, but it was kind of improvised around a "hub" so to say. One night me and a date went there and there was this band that did some good stuff, (forgot the name) but it was so planned out and over-rehersed that it was boring and predictable. We left halfway through the show.

Classical music is different from the Blues, I suppose. Thinking about it I would think that it was mostly written by people who were musical engineers so-to-say and many pieces were written in such a manner as to push the artist to perform at the top level of the instrument's ability in a specific way. This could be why Classical music is or has been called "serious" music. In fact, a lot of "serious" music written by 20th Century composers is written in such a manner as to be disturbing and distressing to the listeners what with odd rests, dischords and pauses and the like.

When I think of the music that I like, the stuff I can relate to, I think of Traditional folk music. Mostly British Isles stuff. I am not a music scholar, but I would bet that Classical music has it roots in Traditional folk music from different cultures.

my 2 cents.

chas · Post by **chas** » Sat May 03, 2003 8:23 am

Paul wrote:I believe that when music gets serious, it stops evolving. It becomes a part of history... The rules that define how it must be played in order to preserve its integrity become more important than the music itself. My Sister is a Serious (classical ) violinist. We talk about this subject often.

Some very good points. My question is, Who gets to define what "serious" music is? I listen to a lot of art-rock, progressive rock, whatever you wanna call it. Bands like Happy the Man, Gentle Giant, King Crimson, Synergy, etc., IMO did music that's way more serious than Phillip Glass. It's more complex harmonically and rhythmically; they just happen to use instruments that aren't part of the traditional orchestra.

I saw a biography of Miles Davis the other night (which was great, BTW, despite their short shrift of the Evans/Coltrane/Adderly era). The one thing that kept coming through in all their interviews was how serious Miles took the music, and how he wanted to make sure his music kept evolving. When you listen to something such as Bitches Brew, it initially sounds like uncontrolled chaos. But the more you listen to it, the more remarkable it is that Miles could assemble a group that sometimes numbered up to 20, give them probably a bear-bones outline of what they're supposed to do, and make music out of it, in pieces up to 30-minutes long. Serious, creative, enjoyable to people with certain twisted personalities (such as myself). I think it's absolute genius, and that Miles ought to be remembered with other great minds of 20th-century music.

And, regarding the lack of evolution in serious music. In the Classical era, orchestras grew to the point that conductors were required. It was said then that music would have to become uniform, and that there was no room left for interpretation. Geez, you hear someone do a Mozart symphony these days, and they can't even agree on the tuning, nevermind the tempo, crescendos, etc.

The one thing that does frost my ass these days, though, is the treatment of the cadenza, the couple of minutes in a concerto in which the soloist is supposed to spontaneously improvise. Most of the younger soloists are playing "written cadenzas," that they didn't even write. I dunno if they're not given any instruction, whether spontaneity is being discouraged or what, but I think it's cheating.