Onyx vs. Copeland, lower hole sizes

[AngelicBeaver]

Here's a conical bore whistle engineering question. What's the relationship between octaves and hole sizes, particularly between the lower notes in each octave? Do larger lower holes help with the balance?

I've got an Onyx by Walt Sweet, and it's very similar to the Copeland low D, but the lower holes are absolutely tiny in comparison (particularly the lowest hole, which is small even for a flute body). The whistle tends to play the bottom three notes flat, and those same notes in the 2nd octave tend to blow sharp. The E breaks very easily in both octaves.

So I'm wondering if opening up the lower holes on the Onyx might help. I mean, the configuration makes the stretch easy, but I wonder if flutes can have this easier hole pattern because they are played with a flexible embouchure, capable of compensating for the tuning issues you'd have with the same pattern on a fixed-embouchure whistle.

[Terry McGee]

I'd expect that opening up the lower holes would be likely to sharpen the second octave notes faster than the low octave. Ideally you'd need to "move" the holes down the tube, and then make them bigger.

You mentioned it's conical. Does it taper all the way down to the foot, or flare out for the last 2 inches or so? That's how flute makers over the centuries have dealt with the lowest note being flatter than its octave.

Is this a low whistle, AngelicBeaver? I'm wondering if the holes have been made smaller and higher to assist with stretch?

[The Lurking Fear]

A low D.The Onyx has a slight flare towards the end,Mr. McGee.

It also has THICK walls,if that has any significance.

[Terry McGee]

Thanks for that, The Lurking Fear.

Yes, thick walls will make small holes appear smaller. On the plus side, they do offer some scope for angling the holes in the direction they need to go. But maybe they are already angled?

[AngelicBeaver]

Here's a link to the whistle in the Irish Flute Store:

https://www.irishflutestore.com/product ... walt-sweet

I believe it's a conical bore flute body with a whistle head.

[trill]

. . . But maybe they are already angled?

I have an Onyx and took a close look at the holes.

Much to see !

1. thick walls
2. chamfers outside, with variations windward/leeward.
3. hole-walls have plainly visible differing angles windward/leeward.

I have a vague recollection of a post by Ralph Sweet (Walt's father) remarking that undercuts can influence tuning differentially between the 1st+2nd octaves.

Off-topic question: would the holes in a thick-walled instrument act as little resonating cavities ? Perhaps contributing to the "voice/timbre/PSD" ?

[The Lurking Fear]

Regarding The Beav's remark "I believe it's a conical bore flute body with a whistle head."

I thought external shapewise yes,but what about the "guts"? Thought there would be some differences,esp. as the usual reviews of those bodies w/flute and whistle heads don't get raves. I wasn't gonna bother Walt but I went hunting here and found.......

from thread...
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Three-Piece Low Whistles: Sweet's Onyx vs. Dixon's Acetal

Post by rubenroks12 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:29 pm
Hi Jayhawk,

I have Walt Sweet's delrin Shannon flute aswell. Indeed, it is a wonderful instrument. I asked Mr.Sweet about it; apparently the shannnon flute and the onyx whistle have different bore profiles and undercuts on the body, thus are not interchangable. Only the outward appearance are the same. I thought I could get just the whistle head for my flute.

Turns out, they are more like cousins than siblings
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Sorry,don't post here much,forgot how to quote & too lazy to look it up right now.

Wonder what's up w/Walt.All I find for sale on his site is 1 model of flute and various accessories. No other flutes,no Onyx. Maybe he's just selling mainly through vendors now?