Tweaking a whistle with a dirty/harsh sound

[Mr.Gumby]

I've never heard of Mullan flutes or whistles. And can't work out from their website where they are.

The imagery on the site and branding on the whistles place them firmly in the North. They're in Enniskillen.

[Terry McGee]

Thanks Mr Gumby. I had assumed the North, but wondered why they didn't have any reference to their locale on their website. Not the usual business practice. A security issue, perhaps?

[ecadre]

I've never heard of Mullan flutes or whistles. And can't work out from their website where they are. But their brass D whistle looks incredibly like my Killarney!

And the Wild whistle looks very similar, other than the black body. Claims to be "Made in Ireland by Paraic McNeela".

Hmmm, curiouser and curiouser....

'Claims to be "Made in Ireland by Paraic McNeela"'

I'd like to see where that claim is made, because I've never seen it. The text on the website does not mention where the whistle is made, but occasionally uses rather deliberately ambiguous language.

[stringbed]

I’ve never heard of Mullan flutes or whistles…but their brass D whistle looks incredibly like my Killarney! And the Wild whistle looks very similar, other than the black body. Claims to be “Made in Ireland by Paraic McNeela”.

All three named brands are Sindt clones. The Killarney is not pin compatible with the other two. Their website presents it “as “Produced in Ireland.” I can’t find any similar indication either of country of manufacture or production on the McNeela or Mullan sites. What have I overlooked?

[Moof]

The Mullan does look a lot like the Killarney, though as Stringbed says, the head isn't the same. The machining on the bottom of the blade is different (a curve on the Mullan, but straight on the Killarney), and the pins that hold the head together are also different (level on the Mullan, proud of the surface on the Killarney). The head resembles the Glenluce whistle much more closely.

If Mullan isn't easy to locate, Glenluce is even harder. Nothing on the Companies House list, so if British it's presumably an imprint used for a range of instruments rather than the name of the maker.

The Mullan is half the retail price of the Killarney, and the Glenluce is also cheaper. I do have a Killarney but haven't played either of the others, so I don't know what they're like.

[Mr.Gumby]

If Mullan isn't easy to locate, Glenluce is even harder. Nothing on the Companies House list, so if British it's presumably an imprint used for a range of instruments rather than the name of the maker.

Mullan music used to publish their location, which was in a housing estate, not a shop where you could go to look at instrument (I looked it up on google earth at some point when my son offered to get a whistle for me when he was regularly going up North to see the girlfriend. I eventually didn't take him up on the offer).
Glenluce is a Pakistani operation.

the pins that hold the head together are also different

Not necessarily set in stone, that. Killarney even sent me one without the pins put in [a fair bit of glue visible though).

[stringbed]

The head [on the Mullan] resembles the Glenluce whistle much more closely. I do have a Killarney but haven’t played either of the others, so I don’t know what they’re like.

The Killarney adheres far more closely to the Sindt design and feel. I have the D’s and A’s of both makes in front of me. Both are head swappable but voiced somewhat differently. The Sindt sound is more compact and purer, scaling evenly across its full range. The Killarney is more open and louder, with a tad of grit to it. As long as I’m already knee-deep in subjective verbiage, the Sindt is palpably the more elegant of the two.

I can add the Wild A and the Mullan D to the comparison. I find them to be a step below the others in terms of response and sound quality but can easily imagine that many players would find them to be just what they’re looking for. The problem is that variation from exemplar to exemplar is clearly more noticeable and ranges from perfectly okay to flat out unacceptable.

The Wild A arrived with a curled metal shaving from the planing of the ramp still attached to the edge and resting against the windway exit. It was unplayable and there was clearly not so much as an optical inspection after it left the machining line. I have a couple of Mullans with interchangeable heads. The best of them works nicely on any of the bodies and the worst is miserable on all.

Glenluce is a Pakistani operation.

I had suspected that if there were an OEM behind any of this, they would be in Pakistan. The reasons tie into OEM flutes more clearly of that origin that are marketed through the same channels we’re otherwise talking about. I’m guessing that Lir is also made at that facility but would be surprised to learn that Killarney is.

[Moof]

I had suspected that if there were an OEM behind any of this, they would be in Pakistan. The reasons tie into OEM flutes more clearly of that origin that are marketed through the same channels we’re otherwise talking about. I’m guessing that Lir is also made at that facility but would be surprised to learn that Killarney is.

I wonder then if the Mullan and the Glenluce are actually the same whistle, made by the same company in Pakistan? They look very similar from photos.

Out of interest, is the bore size the same on the Killarney and the Mullan? If it is the same tubing, do the tone holes align as well? I suppose it's possible that Killarney buy in standard bodies but manufacture their own heads.

I know someone with a Sindt D, it is a nice whistle. I asked him to give me first refusal if he ever decides to flog it, but I reckon I've got no chance!

[ecadre]

If Mullan isn't easy to locate, Glenluce is even harder. Nothing on the Companies House list, so if British it's presumably an imprint used for a range of instruments rather than the name of the maker.

Mullan music used to publish their location, which was in a housing estate, not a shop where you could go to look at instrument (I looked it up on google earth at some point when my son offered to get a whistle for me when he was regularly going up North to see the girlfriend. I eventually didn't take him up on the offer).
Glenluce is a Pakistani operation.

the pins that hold the head together are also different

Not necessarily set in stone, that. Killarney even sent me one without the pins put in [a fair bit of glue visible though).

Not too much mystery about "Glenluce", it's a name used by Hobgoblin Music for their lines of instruments. They also provide the information about where the "Glenluce Wexford" whistles are made (unlike other importers), and that is Pakistan.

[stringbed]

[Please ignore this. It was supposed to have been replaced by the following edited message but remained in the thread.]

[stringbed]

I wonder then if the Mullan and the Glenluce are actually the same whistle, made by the same company in Pakistan

It’s not quite that simple. An OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) typically serves several VARs (Value Added Resellers). Each will specify a product from a range of options. In the present case these would include such things as the type of finish, decorative markings, the position of the VAR’s logo, the level of post-production quality control, etc.

Assuming that some or all of the VARs we’re talking about really are served by the same OEM in Pakistan, there are also two degrees of milling the ramp. The Mullan and, judging from online photos, Glenluce are worked noticeably more finely that is the Wild.

…is the bore size the same on the Killarney and the Mullan? If it is the same tubing, do the tone holes align as well? I suppose it’s possible that Killarney buy in standard bodies but manufacture their own heads

.

The body of the Killarney is slightly narrower in diameter and much thinner walled — matching the Sindt that all of these things are mimicking. Any review you’ll see of the Mullan or the Wild will comment on how unusually heavy they are. There’s no reason why the type of tubing couldn’t be an OEM option but it would also require potentially significant additional machinery. If a VAR were only ordering one of the two parts and manufacturing the other locally, the head joint would be by far the more likely one to farm out.

There’s nothing unusual about OEM or third-party supplier involvement in the large-scale production of musical instruments and it has zero intrinsic implications for the quality of the branded products. For comparison, the computer I’m using to write this comment is marked “Designed by Apple in California. Assembled in China.” This says absolutely nothing about where a single one of its components was manufactured, but there is no doubt that many of the same components appear in competing products. What does that tell us about which of them are better than others?

[Moof]

What does that tell us about which of them are better than others?

Oh, nothing; that's not what I was getting at at all. After the discussion about cheap whistles, I was wondering whether there are whistles in the higher quality ranges that are finished according to the requirements of the brands, but are fundamentally the same.

It wouldn't surprise me, for the reason you give – it seems that almost everything, from the cheap mass-produced to the high end, is farmed out to volume manufacturers. It could be argued that that's problematic, as the work often tends to go to countries for which the revenue is a much bigger priority than workers' rights or concern for the environment, but it doesn't make the finished item somehow less good.

[Moof]

The body of the Killarney is slightly narrower in diameter and much thinner walled

I forgot to say the thinner walls is the reason I chose it over the Wild and the Lir. Not losing my grip on the Killarney is enough to strain my arthritic hands after a while - I don't want anything much heavier unless it also has a wider bore (bigger usually meaning easier to hold with limited mobility).

[ecadre]

At what point does this discussion cross into the territory of libel? Just asking for a friend.

[Moof]

At what point does this discussion cross into the territory of libel? Just asking for a friend.

When someone starts deliberately trying to defame or malign a company, rather than idly pondering how the whistle-making industry works in the modern world?