Tweaking a Generation

[armlann]

I did a search but it must have been too broad. Though I've seen several YT videos about using blue tac to tweak a Generation, I can't get past step one, removing the head. Any tips? I used very hot but not quite boiling water but it won't budge. It's not a huge expense but I'd rather not crack the head if I can avoid it. Thanks in advance.

Jon

[Sirchronique]

There’s always a risk of cracking the head, but using the hot water and then throwing the whistle down a slightly bigger tube is a good method. The edge of the other tube should hit the edge of the bottom of the head.

There seems to be less risk of breakage with this method because the force is applied more evenly all the way around, so there isn’t any torsion or stress concentrated on a single given area.

A good old Generation should be pretty good before tweaking it, but making it tuneable is a plus.

On some whistles the blu-tack seems to help, and on some it is detrimental. It varies from whistle to whistle, so you just have to experiment to see if you like what it does to the whistle in question.


Also, don’t believe all of the YouTube tweaking videos, as some people are full of it. I recently saw a video where someone said that wrapping metal wire around the outside of the top of the tube makes the sound better. (Spoiler: It doesn’t, and that is ridiculous)

[an seanduine]

Sirchronique said ¨ I recently saw a video where someone said that wrapping metal wire around the outside of the top of the tube makes the sound better. (Spoiler: It doesn’t, and that is ridiculous)¨
True enough, such a binding will have little or no acoustic effect. However, binding with wire, or even tightly wrapped silk thread then coated with cyano-acrylate will give some protection against cracking of the plastic head while adjusting it. It would be a shame to go to the trouble of adjusting and tweaking a whistle into a well liked condition. . .and then lose it to a crack. Saliva and time both contribute to brittle plastic.

Bob

[Terry McGee]

Hi Jon

I've been here and had to run a flame (eg from a spirit lamp, cigarette lighter or similar) around the tubing about an inch from the plastic to release the head. That darkens the tubing permanently so is getting a bit violent.

Coincidentally, I've just been given a few old Generations so tried one out on our time-honoured method, which is to run boiling water (straight out of the jug) around the tubing also about an inch out from the plastic, then twisting head and whistle in opposite directions. The head came off in seconds. But, like others from this era I've dealt with, the head will not then go back on. My interpretation is that the plastic has shrunken over the intervening years. That's not uncommon in plastics. Which is probably why you also see some cracked sockets on old whistles. Similar to why many old flutes are cracked around the tuning slide. Excepting that wood loses moisture, while plastic probably loses elasticiser.

To deal with the shrinkage problem you may then need to sand the inside of the head socket. I do this by wrapping some sandpaper around a suitable sized rod, rough side outwards, and spinning it in the lathe. Then offer the head socket onto the spinning sandpaper, rotating the head to avoid taking all the plastic off from one side. And tilting the head a little each way to ensure I'm taking it off further in as well as near the opening. The lathe makes it very easy, but you could probably achieve the same thing holding the rod in a pistol drill. Perhaps get an assistant to hold the pistol drill down firmly on the bench, with the spinning rod poking out into free space.

Be careful, you need all your fingers to play whistle!

Showing uncharacteristic presence of mind, I thought to measure the tightness of the head before and after. This was a Bb Generation. Before sanding it measured about 0.04mm less than the tube diameter. After sanding, about +0.04mm. That seemed to give a good degree of tightness on the tube.

I find that when I do this, I need to reverse the piece of sandpaper on the rod as it clogs quickly and stops cutting. On some heads I've had to replace the paper when both ends became too clogged. It depends on how much stuff you've got to remove. You'll see the colour of the head build up on the sand paper - that gives you a good guide that you are removing material reasonably uniformly. I use 240 grit paper, but you could probably go a bit more coarse if you happen to have something to hand.

I have heard of dipping the whole head into hot or boiling water, but haven't tried that myself, afraid that it might distort the body of the head and mess with the voicing. Others can tell us if I'm being unnecessarily wimpy. I have found when using the flame method on really stuck heads, that the head is pliable when it finally comes off. That's a bit scary, but I have survived it. Probably wise to have a cup of cold water standing by to drop the head into if you find you need to go into the flame zone!

Best of luck with it!

[kkrell]

Re: Tweaking - have you looked through the pinned thread in the C&F Whistle forum?

https://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewt ... =1&t=39238

I did a search but it must have been too broad. Though I've seen several YT videos about using blue tac to tweak a Generation, I can't get past step one, removing the head. Any tips? I used very hot but not quite boiling water but it won't budge. It's not a huge expense but I'd rather not crack the head if I can avoid it. Thanks in advance.

Jon

[Sirchronique]

Sirchronique said ¨ I recently saw a video where someone said that wrapping metal wire around the outside of the top of the tube makes the sound better. (Spoiler: It doesn’t, and that is ridiculous)¨
True enough, such a binding will have little or no acoustic effect. However, binding with wire, or even tightly wrapped silk thread then coated with cyano-acrylate will give some protection against cracking of the plastic head while adjusting it. It would be a shame to go to the trouble of adjusting and tweaking a whistle into a well liked condition. . .and then lose it to a crack. Saliva and time both contribute to brittle plastic.

Bob

What I’m describing is wrapping wire slightly *below* the head, and not the head itself. I’ve seen multiple people claiming that it is beneficial to the sound.

[pancelticpiper]

One thing's for sure, it can be much easier to remove a Generation head on a nickel-plated body than on a lacquered brass one.

Because heating the top of the whistle melts the glue but can also melt the lacquer, and the head can stay just as stuck as before.

I'm sure Jerry Freeman has a sure method! He's tweaked more Generations that anybody.

I was just thinking about how many different ways I myself have altered a Generation or similar whistle.

Here's what comes to mind, from the most basic to more involved.

1. removing the head so you can sharpen or flatten the overal pitch.

2. binding the socket so it can't split. (I wrap heavy thread around the socket, then soak the thread in superglue, which makes the socket immune to splitting.)

3. putting wax or bluetac or whatever inside the head, filling the cavity under the windway, which helps raise the 2nd octave a tad.

4. carving out one or more fingerholes to raise their individual pitch (especially with F#, which on many Generations is the flattest note).

5. chopping a bit off the bottom of the tube to raise the pitch of Bottom D and Middle D.

6. chopping a bit off the top of the tube to raise the overall pitch (if shoving the head all the way down isn't enough).

7. sawing the head in two, right through the window, and gluing it back together to optimise the alignment between the windway and the blade.

8. do #7 but also while the head is in two pieces remove more material with a file so that when the head is glued back together the windway is shorter, which raises the 2nd octave.

Here's what carving out F# to raise its pitch looks like.

The tube has also been shortened a tad.



Here's a stock Generation head on the left, while on the right is one I've sawn through the windway, removed material, and glued back together.

Note that the windway is shorter. This head plays stronger, cleaner, and more in tune than it did before modification. It's probably the best Bb whistle at any price I've ever played.

[Terry McGee]

And so elegant and understated, Richard. Even your best friends wouldn't know you're playing a Tweaked Whistle(TM)!

So, in "7. sawing the head in two, right through the window, and gluing it back together to optimise the alignment between the windway and the blade", do you think you are:
- sliding one part up or down to achieve the realignment you were looking for, or
- "bending" the joint to change the angle between blade and windway, or, conceivably
- both or other?

I must say, I've often looked at one of these heads, and wondered if I could improve the alignment by either:
- cutting mostly through, bending and gluing, or
- softening in boiling water, bending and quenching.

But of course all of this depends on knowing what you want to achieve!

[pancelticpiper]

Oh for sure my modified Bb Generation top isn't much to look at!

But I only care about how the thing plays, which is great.

After you glue it back together (with that wonderful smelly narcotic Styrene Cement that's banned here now) there's a point in time where the two halves are cemented and the head is playable but you can still make adjustments.

I have a minute or two to adjust and play, adjust and play, to get the relative positions of the windway and blade just exactly right, where the airstream is most focused and the tone is strongest and most pure. I like that pure birdlike vintage Generation sound, not the dirty gravelly sound that some prefer.

[Narzog]

I had a really crap harbor freight heat gun that smoked when I used it. Worked wonders for getting the heads of whistles off. Way better than hot water. On my Clarke sweet tone it melted the glue so much that it dripped onto the glove I was wearing and I then got it on the mouthpiece lol...

[armlann]

Thanks Narzog, the heat gun did the trick.

Jon

[Narzog]

Awesome, glad to hear it!

[Sirchronique]

I must say, I've often looked at one of these heads, and wondered if I could improve the alignment by either:
- cutting mostly through, bending and gluing, or
- softening in boiling water, bending and quenching.

But of course all of this depends on knowing what you want to achieve!

Was the softening with boiling water ever something that caught on a bit at one time?

Several years ago I bought some “lots” on eBay of several whistles, usually because there was one thing in the lot that I wanted. One came with this red-top generation in C and the beak was totally curved upwards. It plays so well that I assumed it was a good specimen of a pre-80s Generation until I realized it had no line down the front or mold mark on the back of the head. I haven’t gotten another modern one that plays close to it.

I always assumed that it just happened to be a good one and that the bending was the result of getting accidentally left near heat or something. The deformation is not at all subtle. After reading what you’ve written, it now has me wondering if this was the result of some intentional tweak carried out by a previous owner. Perhaps they stuck something inside after softening it and tried to realign the windway exit to let the air come out at a more optimal angle, and the bent beak was just a side-effect of the process.