Busker or Loud whistle recommendations?

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Schaudwen
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Busker or Loud whistle recommendations?

Post by Schaudwen »

I have been thinking about getting a Kerry Busker whistle to join the musicians that play for our morris dance practice.
I do not have much experience with the variety of whistles out there (the nicest sounding whistle I own is probably my clarke sweettone), and thought I would humbly ask what sort of whistles, in addition to the busker, might meet my needs.

I am looking for a relatively loud high d whistle that doesn't clog easy, and that doesn't feel like a chore to play.

I saw that the busker is certainly loud and doesn't clog easy. I know any loud whistle is going to take more air than a quiet whistle, but I dont know how that would compare to others. There doesn't seem to be too many busker reviews on youtube that compare them to other whistles either, but I just may not be finding them. I do see them mentioned sometimes on C&F, but there dont seem to be too many posts talking about the busker or comparing it to others.

I would be happy to hear about other non kerry busker whistles as well that might meet my needs.

What are your opinions and recommendations?
trill
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Re: Busker or Loud whistle recommendations?

Post by trill »

Susato high D whistles are:

A) the loudest I’ve played

B) made of nearly-indestructible plastic

C) have a crystal-clear voice/timber

D) modestly priced.

For max volume, choose something besides their VSB (very small bore).

trill
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Re: Busker or Loud whistle recommendations?

Post by fatmac »

I agree, Susato are pretty loud whistles, I only have one, but seldom play it at home, because it is so loud! :D
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Re: Busker or Loud whistle recommendations?

Post by Sirchronique »

I consider Copeland and Burke to be good choices for a louder whistle than something like a Clarke/Generation/etc.

Yes, Susato is louder than those still, but maybe a bit overkill. Also, you either love the tone or hate it, as they have their own sound.

Something to keep in mind is that the sound of a whistle cuts through more than you think it does. More volume isn’t always necessary.
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Re: Busker or Loud whistle recommendations?

Post by pancelticpiper »

Yes Susato.

I've told this story a few times over the years here:

Back around 1980, when Susato whistles were machined out of PVC stock (offwhite or chocolate brown) with a wooden block, I ordered a non-tunable High D.

When it came it had a huge bore, was very loud, and was very, very flat. Checking against a tuner I found that it was in A=415 which is a common pitch for modern "Baroque" and "Renaissance" instruments.

(Remember that Susato was making PVC Crumhorns, Recorders, and such before they started making Irish whistles.)

A=415 being useless to me, I chopped the bottom and carved out all the holes, leaving me with a huge-bore hure-hole incredibly loud whistle, the loudest High D I've ever heard. And actually it was a good player, because the high notes weren't harsh, but pure.

I have it to a busker, who was happy to get a whistle whose sound could pierce through anything.
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Re: Busker or Loud whistle recommendations?

Post by RoberTunes »

For tone and playing characteristics, here is a comparison performance between the Busker high D and a high D Cobre.
The Busker being the wider bore louder option with its expanded expressive options, the Cobre being the narrower bore, quieter option. There
is a performance review on YouTube of Nathaniel Dowell on the Cobre, and it doesn't seem extra quiet, but in a mid-range of volume,
with narrower bore playing characteristics.

I checked into the YouTube performance reviews of the version of the whistle just previous to the "Busker", which is the "Thunderbird",
but since some changes in design happened, I can't say that Thunderbird YouTube performances are now necessarily a valid reference
for Buskers. The Busker has LESS clogging than the Thunderbird, so that's been improved.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUaHZfGN3s0&t=7s
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Re: Busker or Loud whistle recommendations?

Post by Schaudwen »

Wow so many great replies! If anyone was thinking of parting with their susato, don't be surprised if you see a wtb post up next!

Since part of a morris dancers job is to be a noisy enough to convince winter to leave, going for overkill definitely counts as a plus in the susatos favor

Robertunes, I actually had been in contact with someone who had posted a cobre in the used instrument forums, since I have been looking to upgrade from a clarke to mid-priced whistle. I appreciate the video to better let me know how hard i should pursue the cobre, or just get the busker down the road to suit my play preferences
Last edited by Schaudwen on Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Busker or Loud whistle recommendations?

Post by Mr.Gumby »

At one point I bought a second hand Harper, based on raving recommendations on these forums. It turned out the loudest whistle I have ever encountered. Much to my dismay, I must add, I hate loud whistles. I kept it for a week, only to confirm my first impression that I would never want to play it. It sold quick enough to a forum user who was happy to snap it up for the €60 or so I paid for it. She said she was going to use it with her Morris side. I hope it worked out for her.

So if loud is your thing, this would probably the ticket. Find a second hand one, don't pay too much.

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Re: Busker or Loud whistle recommendations?

Post by Narzog »

I have a Reyburn brass high D, and its so loud it bothers me to play even with my headphones on lol. Otherwise excellent player. I cant play goldies or kerry busker because I clog them, never had an issue with the Reyburn high D. Strong low end (for a high d), stellar tuning. A bit of a price tag but if you can afford it, could be a good pick.

Note, I also hate loud whistles, primarily loud high whistles. I like loud low whistles but thats because low whistles are quiet in general so 'loud' ones just feel like they are normal volume lol. So what I think is loud may not be as loud to someone else. but the Reyburn is definitely a step in volume above my Dixon trad.
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Re: Busker or Loud whistle recommendations?

Post by Terry McGee »

Do I understand correctly that the Kerry Busker features a 16mm bore (5/8")? Can someone confirm that? It seems very much bigger than whistles like the Mellow D (13.5mm bore) that we regard as tending toward "the bigger side".

What notes can you play up to without it becoming too hard or too screechy?
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Re: Busker or Loud whistle recommendations?

Post by stringbed »

Terry wrote: Do I understand correctly that the Kerry Busker features a 16mm bore (5/8")? Can someone confirm that? It seems very much bigger than whistles like the Mellow D (13.5mm bore) that we regard as tending toward "the bigger side".

What notes can you play up to without it becoming too hard or too screechy?
The high D is 16 mm as was the parent Chieftain design a decade and a half ago. All size Buskers from the D down to the alto A have the same diameter! The headjoints are interchangeable, to boot. They don’t all work as well on every body but I can’t spot any deliberate scaling principle in their voicing. My D becomes all but uselessly screechy at the octave-overblown xxoooo with the supplied headjoint (and the Chieftain is no better). It behaves just fine all the way up with the headjoint that came with the A whistle and is ever so loud. The A was spectacular right out the box, speaking nimbly and evenly well into the third octave with what I regard as a beautiful voice. For the obvious reason, it’s also on the quieter side.
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Re: Busker or Loud whistle recommendations?

Post by sfmans »

Mr.Gumby wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 10:10 am At one point I bought a second hand Harper, based on raving recommendations on these forums. It turned out the loudest whistle I have ever encountered. Much to my dismay, I must add, I hate loud whistles. I kept it for a week, only to confirm my first impression that I would never want to play it. It sold quick enough to a forum user who was happy to snap it up for the €60 or so I paid for it. She said she was going to use it with her Morris side. I hope it worked out for her.

So if loud is your thing, this would probably the ticket. Find a second hand one, don't pay too much.

Image
I've got a good condition Harper D which is sitting around doing nothing, so might be open to sell (the 60UKP mark Mr Gumby quotes sounds about right).

It is indeed as loud as a loud thing being played by Mr Loud! I like it, just don't play high whistle (and if I did would probably buy myself a Kerry).

PM me if interested, happy to provide photos / sound samples / equip a fellow Morris musician!
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Re: Busker or Loud whistle recommendations?

Post by bigsciota »

I'll add my voice to those saying the Susato S bore is your best bet for pure volume. I have had a couple Chieftain/Kerry high Ds, and I found them kinda hard to work with. Very loud, takes a ton of air, and the high A and B are really tough to play or have to listen to. The Bb with the same bore, on the other hand, is a lovely whistle (although that doesn't help if you're playing with others).

I'm not as big a fan of the tone of the Susatos, but I've got one for busking and it's loud, hardy, but still plays well and stays just on the right side of "horribly screechy," at least to my ears. I don't think it's actually that much quieter than a Kerry whistle, I just think the design leads to a bit more palatable upper octave. You still might not make many friends playing it, opinions are quite varied, but it's IMO a better option than the Kerry.

I also have a Burke session whistle I've played busking and take to louder sessions. It is not quite as loud as the Susato, but as others say the whistle carries more than you think. If you're willing to sacrifice a bit of pure volume, the Burke is a much, much better whistle. I find it easier to play and the tone is a good bit more pleasant, especially up to the high ends. Having sat in large sessions with someone playing a Burke, I think you'd have to have a massive amount of noise in order for the Burke to be too quiet. It is, however, also a bit more expensive, and there's something about the plastic nature of the Susato that might be appealing for playing outside. I haven't tried the smaller V bore of the Susatos, but that may be a good compromise if you find the S bore too screechy.
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Re: Busker or Loud whistle recommendations?

Post by Schaudwen »

bigsciota wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:13 am You still might not make many friends playing it, opinions are quite varied,...
Thankfully as a morris dancer I don't think you can say you are doing it right without a noise complaint or two lol.

Do you have any opinion on the session vs the large bore Burke? i saw it listed them as basically the same whistle, but with different material qualities.
Last edited by Schaudwen on Sat Jan 21, 2023 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Busker or Loud whistle recommendations?

Post by bigsciota »

I actually asked Michael Burke this very question! There are two versions of the brass whistle, the "narrow" and the "session" bore. He found aluminum to be a bit brighter and louder/cut more than brass, so when he made a "session" bore aluminum whistle he made the bore somewhat smaller than the brass "session" bore. He then made an aluminum whistle with the same bore as the brass "session" bore and called it a "wide" bore. It's confusing, I know!

In other words, the "narrow" aluminum and brass bores are the same, and the "session" brass is the same bore as the "wide" aluminum. The "session" aluminum is in the middle, and doesn't have a brass equivalent.

I have the "session" bore aluminum, which I like. It's got plenty of volume but still plays nicely; stiffer than a Killarney or Generation but not nearly as stiff as the Susato S, and with a lovely pure tone that doesn't get too "recorder-y" like the Susato. It is not screechingly loud but gives that extra little bit of volume/cut that makes a difference in a very loud setting. If you're looking for a bit more volume the "wide" aluminum would presumably be even louder, and is according to Burke the loudest D whistle he makes.
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