Whistle makes and attributes quandary

[Roland of Gilead]

I've been looking for a Mezzo A or G for what feels like ages at this point because I just can't tell who's whistles have the attributes I'm specifically looking for and, as far as cost goes, trying a multitude won't be an option.

The attributes I'm looking for are:

1) first and foremost: a pronounced, intense attack. Quick response I really like the sound of Goldie's for their attack, but coming by one second hand seems a challenge. Reyburn might have that? Do carbony?

2) somewhat stronger bell note, but a bit of a sacrifice for easier octave switching, medium breath requirements
Burkes tend to have a really solid bell note, as do Reyburn from what I can tell. I really like the rich sound of the Reyburn and the pure sound of Burke, but I have heard that burkes require quite a bit of air and I'm not sure if they have the sharp attack I'm looking for. Do Reyburn whistles have that?

3) less likelihood of squeals when the odd mistake happens, less condensation build up potential
Nuff said?

4) not particularly airy sounding
I expect a certain degree of audible turbulence from a wind instrument. I really love my Reviol for example, but Ive had MK whistles and they're not really my bag. I prefer more focused tone, whether it is pure or if it's rich. I hope airy isn't confused for harmonically rich, because those to me are quite different.

5) more immediately available. I'm a bit impatient to play and would favor something more readily available

I figure these fit into at least some of the aforementioned values:
-carbony
-burke
-goldie
-lofgren (if one could ever find one)
-humphrey
-Reyburn

Any other ideas or suggestions? I'm talking myself in circles here and while I know all attributes may be asking too much, at least #1 (powerful attack, note accentuation) and #4 would be great.
If anyone can provide any additional anectodal experience, I'd really appreciate it. I've crawled through the forum so much for these answers but am not coming up with enough conclusive information

[BKWeid]

Roland, I’m sure you’ll have a variety of responses to your posts with a variety of advice and opinions—all good to hear.

I would say, having happened into a Goldie mezzo A, that I completely understand why they are so sought after. Amazing whistle! In every category of playing characteristic, my Goldie A is a dream. You can’t go wrong, if you find one.

Secondly, Burkes are at the top of my list for most beloved whistles. The tone is uniquely pure, but in no way a negative. The bell note is powerful and booming. If I understand your reference to attack, they don’t respond exactly as a Goldie, when first pushed, but, not bad at all. The complaint that Burkes’ require too much air is way over blown, no pun intended. While I prefer the Goldie low D, the Burke low D is the next whistle I choose. In the Burke line-up, the only time I start to notice the additional air requirement is at the Low D and lower level. And, even then, its totally manageable for most players. You may need to think a tiny bit more about pauses and breathing, but, I suspect low D Burke players won’t notice it much after the initial get-to-know-you period. In your case, breath requirement for a Burke mezzo A shouldn’t be an issue at all, really. You’ll be fine!

I have also been pleasantly surprised by the Reyburns I’ve played. Also a worthy option.

I don’t have experience with Humphrey. Carbony’s are fun and durable, but, not at the same level (in tone quality) as Burke or Goldie—In my humble experience. Lofgren is the mystery here as they are only the whistle of legend and myth—I’ve played one, but only for a few minutes. I’ve corresponded with Mr. Lofgren, but, It hasn’t gone well for me as demand outreaches supply and they are hardly seen in U.S. market, sadly.

There are good options readily available. I’d recommend you give a Burke a go (or Reyburn) until a Goldie pops up. You can always move a Burke to a new owner, if the Goldie avails itself.

Best of luck in your search and I look forward to reading other opinions.

[fatmac]

I think there is always going to be compromises, a perfect whistle is a fantasy, you need to actually play one to know if it is going to be 'the one' for you.

I don't think there is any other way, we each play differently, so a 'perfect' whistle for one person may not be for you.

[RoberTunes]

then listen and watch this Tony Dixon alto A aluminum whistle demonstration.
Sharp notes, good volume in both octaves, clean tone, it's up to you what you
think of the level of raspiness/chiff in it (there's not much, it seems to be
very air-efficient). TD whistles have a precision plastic mouthpiece that is
going to produce very little condensation, compared to metals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAbDEcb ... &index=123

I have the key of soprano D of this whistle line and like it. The A I haven't personally played.

[Narzog]

You would probobly like a Burke or Reyburn. Which should check most of your boxes.

Burkes do have a tendency to use too much air. But I don't think the alto A hits that point. It uses more air than like a Gen Bb. But it doesnt hit a point where I'm running out of breath and messing up tunes. The lower key burkes get wider and taller windways as you get lower. Which makes the air use explode. The low F air use is significantly more than the A (it even used more air than any low D I've played).

Burkes have a bad oxx ooo. I actually taped the first hole on my Burke to get a better oxx ooo. Still a good whistle though.

Burkes and Alto Reyburn do not squeak. (I say alto Reyburns because the low D can a little, because it has a different windway exit to improve air efficiency). Every 'Overton style' whistle I've played were really easy to get sharp squeaks and sounds from. Some more significant, some just little hard to notice sibilant sounds at the start of a note or on ornamentation. It's always really bugged me so I never like the whistles. I've seen people post clips on Facebook of their new Busker, etc, and they have it too so its at least not just me. The issue can obviously be avoided but it bugs me.

Reyburn's are good but interesting whistles. They vary quite heavily from key to key. The stellar tuning curve is consistent from whistle to whistle. Similar to Burkes. Even the upper second octave virtually breaks in tune, making playing in tune effortless. What varies is that some are air efficient, some are not, some overblow easily, some hard. Etc. The Low D takes a hard push but has a really short windway exit, giving good air efficiency. The low F has a wide open windway exit, so it takes a really hard push and uses huge amounts of air. More than the burke F. The low G is open blowing but a narrow windway, and uses normal air use, but overblows easily because its a small bore. The Brass D/C set I have is stellar, no air issues, strong low end for high whistles. So for the alto A, I'm not exactly sure how it will play. It should be a stronger than the G, because its going to be the same head and bore size (I believe), to the G. I've actually been planning on asking Ronaldo if he can make me a Bb body for my G. Which I think would be a good amount stronger, and would be an excellent Bb. So I feel like it would be a very good A also, seeign that its just a half step lower. I think a Reyburn A would be a bit less hard overblowing than a Burke. So if you are worried that the Burke may be too stiff, making switching between octaves quickly more annoying, you may prefer a Reyburn, which I think would be a 'smoother' player. Reyburn in ET tuning cross finger with oxx xox perfectly, and oxx ooo still works well. If you get a Reyburn ask for equal temperment tuning, because he also makes one with JI. Everyone else like Burke use ET. Ronaldo is nice to work with, you can email him and ask and he will respond.

My condensed thought, is that you would like a Burke if you want the super strong bell note and are fine with having a noticeable push increase for the upper notes. The Reyburn 'A' would be better if you are fine with losing the amazing bell note for a smoother second octave. Both have the amazing tuning, no clogging delrin windways, and don't squeak.

Burkes you can just buy and it should ship quickly. Reyburn in my experience take a week or 2 to ship, but he never had a problematic waiting list for me at least.

[Mr.Gumby]

If you get a Reyburn ask for equal temperment tuning, because he also makes one with JI

Unless you enjoy sweeter intervals and pure harmonies ofcourse.

Seriously though, it is a subject that merits a discussion of its own (been there, done that and not going there again. Suffice to say I am not a fan of harsh thirds but ymmv) Look into it, make an informed choice to suit your tastes, circumstances and what you want/like/need.

[Narzog]

If you get a Reyburn ask for equal temperment tuning, because he also makes one with JI

Unless you enjoy sweeter intervals and pure harmonies ofcourse.

Seriously though, it is a subject that merits a discussion of its own (been there, done that and not going there again. Suffice to say I am not a fan of harsh thirds but ymmv) Look into it, make an informed choice to suit your tastes, circumstances and what you want/like/need.

I'm more bringing it up because most people wont even realize its a thing. I only did because I over research everything before buying haha. I don't want someone to get it partially off my recommendation, and then try to play with a tuner and think the tuning is a little weird. Not knowing its tuned differently than they expected.

[Mr.Gumby]

Earlier this week you were a bit more definitive:

I'd recommend asking for ET tuning because by default he actually uses 'just' which is supposed to sound good but idk seems fishy to me when everything else uses ET.

I don't advocate for one option over the other but the notion 'everything else is ET' is a false one. In the environment I exist in you have to consider why every note of a chanter plays a perfect harmony with the drones, why a fiddleplayer sounds particularly sweet or why a particular concertina's chords are so lovely. There is a choice of intonations and temperaments out there. I suppose we have all seen guitar players tune their instrument only to play a chord and then re-tune their open strings (de-tune if you like) to sweeten the chord's harmonies (thirds in particular) so 'everything else' is not a given and it's good to realise that when choosing a whistle temperament to suit your own circumstances.

That said, the player has a hand in the intonation, I remember being slightly squeamish over my Sindt's quite rigid ET. After a while though I realised the way I p[layed it, the intervals had sweetened to pretty much what you get in just intonation. And just last night I heard two players (Caoimhe and Seamus O Flaharta) who have a brilliant sense of harmony, mostly utilised in their Sean Nós singing, play a whistle duet, harmonising one tune and that was pretty sweet (they played whisltes from the Sindt/Killarney spectrum)

[pancelticpiper]

The attributes I'm looking for...first and foremost a pronounced, intense attack.

I honestly don't know what to make of that.

In over 45 years of playing whistle, and around a decade ago doing a deep-dive into the performance characteristics of every Low D I could get my hands on, I never evaluated attack intensity.

For one thing as a trad player it doesn't really mean anything to me. I suppose it would be important to an orchestral player, who might have, say, a series of staccato high notes marked fortissimo scored in the music. But the music I play doesn't have such stuff, and is more flowing.

From what I can make of it, you'll probably want the loudest stiffest biggest-bore whistle you can find, like a Burke.

[Jayhawk]

I just received a Dixon A (just like the video above). It's a nice whistle, but I need time to settle down with it. With the pound down so much, it was a good value purchase right now from the states. It no way comes close to the best A I've ever played, a water weasel owned by a friend...that thing just plays itself...but the Dixon seems like a fine whistle at a good price.

I wonder if anyone has played a Susato A? I've had a love/hate relationship with susatos over the years. I have a nice Bb I really like, so I'm guessing the A would be nice as well.

Eric

[Mr.Gumby]

I wonder if anyone has played a Susato A? I

I have one that was given to me by a dear late friend. It belonged to her late son and she wanted me to have it.

I am hanging on to it for those, purely sentimental, reasons. I am not a fan. It feels like the bore is just stretched too long for the given diameter. I have never had the urge to play it.

[Narzog]

I just received a Dixon A (just like the video above). It's a nice whistle, but I need time to settle down with it. With the pound down so much, it was a good value purchase right now from the states. It no way comes close to the best A I've ever played, a water weasel owned by a friend...that thing just plays itself...but the Dixon seems like a fine whistle at a good price.

I wonder if anyone has played a Susato A? I've had a love/hate relationship with susatos over the years. I have a nice Bb I really like, so I'm guessing the A would be nice as well.

Eric

I have a similar feeling on Susato's. I had a Susato low G I picked up a while ago just because I saw it used, on ebay for cheap. but it took so long to come in that I ended up buying a Reyburn so when the Susato came in it was already replaced haha. But it had a surprisingly strong bell note for using the same headpiece as the Bb. And the tuning was excellent. Air use was good too. I recall that it may have been a bit finnicky to play, but that seems to be a recurring theme with Susato's (my low E is the same). But not a problem once you are used to playing it. I'd expect the low A plays more similarly to the Bb than the low G. I feel like my biggest problem was probobly that I didn't like the tone, so it had no reason to be played over my Reyburn so I sold it. My other main beef with susato's, is actually the mouth piece shape. I feel like I drool while playing them haha. Its a bit too fat at the end. Especially on the low D headpiece that the low E uses. But for the price they are quite good whistles. They get the job done. And if someone is on a budget, buying extra bodies saves a lot of money to get more keys.

[Jayhawk]

Thanks Peter and Narzog...good to know on the susato low A. I had debated between it and the Dixon I bought, and it sounds like I made a good choice.

Eric

[AngelicBeaver]

JP Le Meur listed an A whistle a few days ago, and I let it sit for a while before finally springing for it. I'll let you know how it goes. I have a low F by him that seems like it meets your requirements. It's very responsive, easy to blow, with crisp, defined notes. I'd say it compares very favorably to my Goldie F, with the primary difference being the balance (softer bell note, sweeter highs), but it's the only whistle of his that I've tried. If this A has identical playing and tonal characteristics, then what I paid will prove very reasonable (fingers crossed).