Chiff and Fipple Forums

Unfortunately it had a poor playability

How much time did you give yourself to get to know the instrument?

I am no fan of Burkes but poor playability?

Often, too often, I see people here sell whistles saying 'only played a few minutes'. I scratch my head and wonder at that sort of thing. It can take a bit to get to know an instrument, especially when you are a less experienced player.

And regarding the 'stellar craftmanship' above: that's cnc machines for you.

Mr.Gumby wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 8:43 am

Unfortunately it had a poor playability

How much time did you give yourself to get to know the instrument?

It can take a bit, especially when you are a less experienced player.

As a longtime flute player I will say that it would take me around a week of daily playing for my embouchure to fully acclimate to a flute.

However at first blow I learned the fundamental characteristics of a flute, say by playing up and down the scale.

To put it into numbers (a bit silly I admit) I would know 90% of the flute's behaviour immediately, but that last 10% took several hours spread across several days. A flute embouchure is a complicated thing involving tiny adjustments in a large number of facial muscles, and for me it took time.

Whistles don't have that; their tone production is predetermined by the maker, and every detail of how a whistle performs can be understood in a few minutes of playing.

On the other hand I've discovered that if I devote myself to exclusively playing one whistle for a few months my style slowly adapts to what that particular whistle likes to do. For example when I played only a Burke Low D for a few years the fact that it required frequent breathing and that Bottom D was by far its strongest note, so that I could really lean on it and "honk" it, I found myself playing in a style somewhat akin to some of the old-time flute players.

When I switched to an MK, which was extremely air-efficient and had a weak Bottom D, my style evolved to longer smoother phrases.

I should stress that as soon as I played a Burke and an MK I fully understood how these whistles performed; they didn't perform one whit better for me after five months of playing as they did after five minutes of playing.

So this is your opinion, Mr. Gumby. Without trying the whistle I had.
I wouldn't rule out I had a whistle of lower quality. And... I wouldn't send it back for fun by losing about 40 $ for shipping.
So I guess I know what I had, what I did and what I'm talking about.

People who've bought a new premium whistle and are unsure of keeping it after playing it for 13 seconds,
should send it to me with $58.75 and I'll give the whistle a thorough test and return it with a
25-point detailed checklist with insightful comments about each feature and factor of playability, so they can
have more suitable data with which to make rash decisions about totally subjective concerns.
In addition, if during or after this process they decide they really don't like the whistle and are profoundly appreciative
of my participation in their reckless behavior, they can send me the whistle to keep, for free
and I will promise to never contact them about that whistle again.

I might just extend this offer to owners of Ludwig drums, high-end guitars, Bosendorf pianos, Bach saxophones,
Korg and Yamaha keyboards, and for new owners of parrots, Kawasaki motorcycles, trampolines, motorhomes
and mountain bikes, for starters.

In support of Mr Gumby’s point whenever I have purchased a new whistle - and there has been a few - after an initial play I have generally put the whistles aside with a bit of disappointment that they had not played like I had expected and hoped. After time I have given the whistle(s) another try and put them away again. That dance has gone on for a while until one day I have picked up a previously abandoned whistle and said to myself, hey that’s a nice whistle. That’s me adapting to the whistles not the other way round.
Cheers

So this is your opinion, Mr. Gumby. Without trying the whistle I had.

Whatever else you feel about them, Burkes are not known for inconsistency, if anything, quite the opposite.

They consist of parts made by cnc machines, which are not known for errors or irregular output.

Any Burke I ever tried, admittedly not a large number but perhaps half a dozen Ds, a C and a B, played pretty much like the others.

The likelihood of a very poor one leaving the factory is remote. So yes, with all that in mind, that's my opinion.

JTU wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:38 pm In support of Mr Gumby’s point whenever I have purchased a new whistle - and there has been a few - after an initial play I have generally put the whistles aside with a bit of disappointment that they had not played like I had expected and hoped. After time I have given the whistle(s) another try and put them away again. That dance has gone on for a while until one day I have picked up a previously abandoned whistle and said to myself, hey that’s a nice whistle. That’s me adapting to the whistles not the other way round.
Cheers

Same here. Funny how the "dance" goes on and you have a different opinion about that whistle. I have quite a few high D's now, and they all take their turn as to what hits me as the best one at that point in time, even if for only one tune.

Mr.Gumby wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:21 am

So this is your opinion, Mr. Gumby. Without trying the whistle I had.

Whatever else you feel about them, Burkes are not known for inconsistency, if anything, quite the opposite.

They consist of parts made by cnc machines, which are not known for errors or irregular output.

Any Burke I ever tried, admittedly not a large number but perhaps half a dozen Ds, a C and a B, played pretty much like the others.

The likelihood of a very poor one leaving the factory is remote. So yes, with all that in mind, that's my opinion.

So what's the reason for the price, if some machines cut some brass?

Mr.Gumby wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:29 pm Here is description of the process at the time, by the man himself

Yeah, nice product placement. I'd do the same.
Whistle making sounds a little like a religion.
Something like... you pay for names like Gibson, Mercedes, Adidas... if the quality is (still) high or not.
I play several whistles, kept the ones that are good for me and sent the others back. I don't expect much for 10$, for 300$ I do. Don't care for brands.

Hauke wrote: ↑Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:58 pm Yeah, nice product placement. I'd do the same.
Whistle making sounds a little like a religion.
Something like... you pay for names like Gibson, Mercedes, Adidas... if the quality is (still) high or not.
I play several whistles, kept the ones that are good for me and sent the others back. I don't expect much for 10$, for 300$ I do. Don't care for brands.

I definitely cant say Burkes are all the name and no quality. It takes a whole 5 seconds of looking at one to realize it costs more to make than the majority of other whistles. Advanced o ring tuning slide. Delrin internal windway with metal exterior. Nickel (I believe) plating. And they are known for playing incredibly consistently, and with excellent tuning. I've talked about other whistles, like MK, and people always say theirs played differently. Or, they had 2 that played differently in the same key. Some people say their MK low D overblows too easily and has a bad low end. Mine actually has a fairly good low end. burkes are insanely consistent. If I bought 5 other burke A's, all different years, I bet they would all play almost identically.

Goldie are a more simple construction than Burkes. I have no idea how to make the flat side Overton style whistle heads. but the tape tuning slide, no special finish, less parts, etc. But are Goldies over priced and all name? Absolutely not.

MK also cost a lot, and are a similar design to many other whistles. but I definitely think my MK is better than my Alba, both low F's. My alba is also an old one, the new ones may be improved design. No hate for Albas.

Reyburn the construction is less fancy than MK or burkes. But I still think they are excellent whistles. They vary a bit from key to key in how they play, but the alu low D and brass D/c are fantastic.

Morale of the story. I love all my 'over priced' whistles. Which to me are worth the money.

RoberTunes wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:22 pm ...a new premium whistle and are unsure of keeping it after playing it for 13 seconds...

I wouldn't be unsure, because 13 seconds is plenty long enough to discover the tuning of the octaves, the solidity of the low notes, the nimbleness of octave leaps, and whether the 2nd octave is easy and sweet or stiff and harsh.

These performance characteristics are built in by the maker and can be quickly ascertained; 13 hours or 13 days later the whistle will still play how it did in the first 13 seconds.

pancelticpiper wrote: ↑Mon Oct 03, 2022 6:22 am

RoberTunes wrote: ↑Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:22 pm ...a new premium whistle and are unsure of keeping it after playing it for 13 seconds...

I wouldn't be unsure, because 13 seconds is plenty long enough to discover the tuning of the octaves, the solidity of the low notes, the nimbleness of octave leaps, and whether the 2nd octave is easy and sweet or stiff and harsh.

These performance characteristics are built in by the maker and can be quickly ascertained; 13 hours or 13 days later the whistle will still play how it did in the first 13 seconds.

That's what it is. It doesn't take a long time to discover some characteristics. Or most of it. And after some weeks a whistle can be played as it wants to be played.
But if it works the kind it overblows, the balance of air use and the volume difference in both octaves, that's not hard to find out quick.
Sorry, it's not easy to explain a difficult and complex thing like this in a foreign language.

My issue is that while it doesnt take long to figure out how it plays, it can take time to adjust your playing to how it wants to be played. I have a bad reputation for picking up whistles and selling them too early. The ones I kept longer I ended up disliking less. Which doesnt mean I learned to love them, I still ended up selling them. But the things I dislike usually get less bad over time.

I know what you mean, Narzog. The thing is... If a Dixon or Killarney or Lír or something else under 100$ feels still bad for me after some months it hurts. If any whistle over 250$ feels like this and the time to return is over it hurts so much more. I don't have much money to spend. So I don't want as many as possible whistles. I don't want to be an expert in this case. I only try to get close to the holy grail for me.