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I'm currently working through Volume 2 of Mary Bergin's tutorial set and really enjoying it. But I happened to look through Oaim's tutorials and they have a new course out on the Doolin/Clare style by Christy Barry. It got me to thinking about styles of playing and how they differ. For example, what is Mary's style and what characterises it? And how would it be different from the Doolin style?

And, is there anywhere I can read about different styles, maybe in one of Grey Larsen's books?

Generalising about regional styles can be a bit of a perilous exercise as it assumes all players in a particular area playing at least a similar style. I wouldn't like to speculate on 'Doolin' style, John Killouhry, Micho & Gussie Russell or what has developed playing sessions for the pubs over the past forty years or so? They'r not exactly the same thing.

The older North Clare style is perhaps characterised by a rhythmic, sparsely ornamented style of playing: Micho & Gussie, John Killourhy, Pappy Looney, Jimmy Hogan, Paddy 'Organ' Mullins etc etc., centered around Kilfenora (and its band), Doolin, Ennistymon.

Not sure though that would be a defining feature: if you go to East Clare Joe Bane, Bill Malley and several other players of the same generation had equally sparsely ornamented styles. While if you travel even a few miles south to West Clare you had a whole hive of the 'ornamented' style that would sit alongside the styles already mentioned under the umbrella of 'Clare' style.

For one thing, Mary Bergin 's playing has lots of rolls so that would set her apart from the older styles. Perhaps a feature of more 'modern' styles.

Perhaps better than reading about styles is to actually listen to a variety of players and pick the bits you like and incorporate them into your own approach. Access to a variety of styles has never been easier.

Thanks very much, Mr Gumby. I was betting that you would reply. Very helpful. Can you suggest any modern players whose style would be a clear contrast to Mary's playing or any you think it would be worth me listening to?

One very fine whistle player once told me all of her generation wanted to play like Mary Bergin when she first arrived on the scene during the seventies. I think it will be hard enough to find many contemporary players who have not to some extent, directly or indirectly, been influenced by her.

So there's that. My general advice would be to listen to as many players as you can and dig deeper into the playing of those you like best. And not just whistle players either.

Thanks very much!

Mr.Gumby wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:43 am One very fine whistle player once told me all of her generation wanted to play like Mary Bergin when she first arrived on the scene during the seventies. I think it will be hard enough to find many contemporary players who have not to some extent, directly or indirectly, been influenced by her.

For sure pretty much all the good whistleplayers I was hearing around here in the 80s and 90s (both American and Irish) were playing very close to Mary Bergin's style, some consciously so.

More than one player told me they got the Feadoga Stain album and learned every tune and played as closely as possible to the album. At sessions people would play all the sets off that album, not just the tunes.

In like manner I and many other flutists were trying to become miniature Matt Molloys.

About Mary Bergin's style, one thing that jumps out to me is the way she'll frequently throw in BC#d and C#de open legato triplets including in tunes which otherwise have C natural.

There's to an extent the fear of being thought of as not being up to scratch if you don't put in enough 'stuff', in some people anyway. Even Micho Russell was quietly coaxing people to teach him rolls at some point, for fear of being left behind, or being thought of as too simple.
But whatever the way, every now and again someone comes along who sets a new standard that people hold themselves to.

I don't think there are many, if any, living whistle players in Ireland who have not been affected directly or indirectly [ even without knowing it ] by Mary Bergin's "Feadog Stain" recording. It was a real landmark in Irish music, one of the most influential recordings ever. An object example of near perfection in solo musicianship, musical taste in choice of tunes, and with very tasteful accompaniment. Having said that, I heard several outstanding whistle players in the finals of the All-Ireland Fleadhs in the years preceding Mary's recording, in both 1976 and 1977, who were of a very similar standard, but I would have to give Mary that wee edge over them all.
I have huge respect for Christy Barry's musicianship, but to class it as "Doolin style" is a bit over the top, IMHO.
I posted one example of whistle playing on Youtube which reminded me a bit of Micho Russell's style, and that was these two reels played by Sligo fiddler Oisin MacDiaramada - I love this, and it's maybe not so well known, so listen to this :
https://youtu.be/Rg3FY0Jv0D4
Mr Gumby - you neglected to mention another whistle-playing hero of mine from Clare, Joe Cunneen. I would love to hear any memories or knowledge you have have of him.
I came across some tunes played by him in a tape a friend gave to me last year. I will try to post them on Youtube some time.

Seán Ryan would certainly be a different style than Mary Bergin, not necessarily a million miles away but tonguing plays a lot more of a role in his playing and ornamentation. Don't know if he counts as "modern" being of around the same vintage as Mary Bergin, but he's still around and playing if that counts for anything!

[Thread revival. - Mod]

Thread revival : following on from a current discussion at "thesession.org", I ve posted a few examples of whistle players from competitions at the 1976 Fleadh on "Youtube".
The recording quality is not at all bad from a cassette tape now nearly 48 years old :

https://youtu.be/HML7FZ_fB4g?si=Bx0pvDUydyvU9UQB

I also posted this a few years back, and forgot about it :

https://youtu.be/q1mrPmMAxUw?si=xCh4bCEifeoHwng0

These players would all be contemporaries of Mary Bergin, this was 3 years before she recorded and released "Feadoga Stain".

I was thinking about that sort of thing after reading the thread on the session.
Have a look at the players linked on the Sean O Riada Gold medal thread l posted last week. All thoroughly contemporary styles, very different from what was around perhaps twenty years ago (and before, obviously). All a product of their time and the sum of their influences. I believe listening to that particular selection of young players of both flute and whistle, alongside Kenny's tapes, can be very illuminating.

Was also thinking, with regard to one of the questions on the session.org, that Micho Russell's music was thoroughly of it's place but his playing style was equally thoroughly his own and no-one else's.

There are many different playing styles around Clare, I remember Mick O Connor telling me years ago there could be different styles of playing from one townland to the next, but all, or most, very recognisable as Clare music. More roads leading there, or more ways to skin that particular cat, in other words.[and I see now I said similar things in the earlier posts of this revived thread]

Mary Bergin's "Feadog Stain" recording. It was a real landmark in Irish music,

She was talking about the recording process of that recently along the lines of 'I didn't realise you could do things again or correct mistakes at the time so I put it all down in one go on the same day"

Speaking of areas and styles Doireann ní Ghlacáin is doing a series on tg4 at the moment, looking at music of various areas, some of which have local styles, and some not so much: Ceoilaireacht. Whatever else you get from that, there's some nice music in it.

kenny wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 5:42 am I've posted a few examples of whistle players from competitions at the 1976 Fleadh on Youtube.
The recording quality is not at all bad from a cassette tape now nearly 48 years old:

https://youtu.be/HML7FZ_fB4g?si=Bx0pvDUydyvU9UQB

These players would all be contemporaries of Mary Bergin, this was 3 years before she recorded and released "Feadoga Stain".

I just listened to the first three cuts, two jig and one reel, and the thing that jumps out to me is how more flowing and legato the playing is, more of a style I associate with certain fluteplayers.

Tonguing is much more sparse than the post-Feadoga Stain style.

Tonguing is much more sparse than the post-Feadoga Stain style.

The more legato style hasn't disappeared yet though. I live in an area where a more flowing style is pretty much alive, partly due to a neighbour of mine who has taught hundreds.

I must say I was struck by the degree of tonguing/glottal stopping in the playing of the young players in finals of the Sean O RIada Gold medal competition. Possibly due to the preferences of the adjudicators (Bergin,O Grada, Hastings) but probably also due to what's popular at the moment, the trend/fashion swinging away from the more legato styles that were top of the pile for the previous generation(s). I think there's a generational thing going on there, just as the fashion of legato styles of the seventies was a reaction to the more non legato ones that ruled before that.

Just a personal observation, I've noticed a bit of a divergence in some of the playing I've heard and wonder how much of it is due to divergence of whistle use. The solo whistle players I've heard who play high whistles tend towards a style with more pops/chirps/burbles/etc., something more akin to a closed-chanter style of piping. Tonguing, shorter lines, bits of staccato, etc. The folks who play in bands and often use lower whistles, especially the popular "progressive" bands that do a lot of tours and recordings, tend to have a more flowing, virtuosic style.

I wonder how much of that is due to those lower whistles not really "popping"/chirping in the same way as a D would. That flowing style seems to work better, for instance, on a low D than a more staccato approach would.

I posted this just now on "thesession.org" - with links to 3 recordings made at the 1976 All-Ireland Senior Whistle competition : hope this might be of interest.

https://youtu.be/u9Wy9WQQqDg?si=s2qXK6IeQ4_8L_qv
YouTube
https://youtu.be/SBeHOXWnfPc?si=x8GjRBMW-83TViUb
YouTube
https://youtu.be/HBKQWrgRDz4?si=UOw5txUfm4CFW9mh
YouTube

According to the Fleadh programme, players came from Killarney, Wexford, Tipperary, Nenagh, Galway, Athlone, Sligo, Derry, Cullybracky [sic ], USA [ only 1 of 3 showed up ], and England [ 2 ].
If “regional styles” existed , it should be possible to assign the player to the place of origin. With 1 notable exception, possibly 2, I don’t think you can.
As I said above, - this was 3 years before Mary Bergin's highly-influential "Feadoga Stain" was recorded and released.