Jerry Freeman Low G

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JTU
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Jerry Freeman Low G

Post by JTU »

I see from the latest YouTube video put up by Jerry Freeman that he has a new low G whistle with an aluminium body. Has anyone tried one of these and more importantly how does it compare to his brass bodied low G?
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Re: Jerry Freeman Low G

Post by Narzog »

Seems interesting. His old low G is on a Bb size bore with a Bb size head. So I'd expect that one to overblow VERY easily. This is still a Bb head, but on a larger bore. So I'd expect it to play a bit better. It may be quieter tho, especially in the high end. Because its a bigger bore but not bigger mouthpiece. Where generally big bore whistles also have a wider windway to get similar volume.

This is pure speculation though, theres many factors that add up to the end result.
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Re: Jerry Freeman Low G

Post by Tyler DelGregg »

Jerry makes his own G and A tone bodies; he hasn't used any Generation Bb tone bodies on his G and A. His original A, using his own tone body, had a smaller diameter than his current A.
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Re: Jerry Freeman Low G

Post by RoberTunes »

I'd like Freeman (who might read posts on social media? lol) to explain why he keeps using the "Generation" word for his own whistles when
in fact they don't use a Generation tube or a key Generation makes (lowest key Generation makes is Bb), and the key is lower than Bb. Low G is substantially lower
than Bb in terms of tube bore diameter, tube length and finger hole placement and tone production physics.

Will we see a "Because I can. It's legal."?

Freeman may have an orienting business arrangement with Generation, as would anyone involved in the manufacture or retail sales of
Generation whistles, or any musical instrument store that already sells Generation whistles and where competition long ago became a threat
to continued sales of Generation whistles. Otherwise, why would Freeman be so eager to make such claims instead of naming such an instrument
as a Low G under his own name?

What's being played in this video is not a kind of original "Generation" whistle that's been "tweeked", it's in fact a new whistle manufacture with some model
of Generation mouthpiece stuck on it, using a gray attachment section that Generation doesn't make.

Link to YouTube video of Low G whistle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmIIRQiwHc8

Looking forward to the Freeman Ford F-150 pickup trucks.
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Re: Jerry Freeman Low G

Post by Narzog »

RoberTunes wrote: Wed May 11, 2022 9:55 am I'd like Freeman (who might read posts on social media? lol) to explain why he keeps using the "Generation" word for his own whistles when
in fact they don't use a Generation tube or a key Generation makes (lowest key Generation makes is Bb), and the key is lower than Bb. Low G is substantially lower
than Bb in terms of tube bore diameter, tube length and finger hole placement and tone production physics.

Will we see a "Because I can. It's legal."?

What's being played in this video is not a kind of original "Generation" whistle that's been "tweeked", it's in fact a new whistle manufacture with some model
of Generation mouthpiece stuck on it, using a gray attachment section that Generation doesn't make.
I'm torn on this. Looking at his ebay store, the red head ones all say tweaked generation. Which is fair, thats what they are. Taking a gen D, and tweaking it, is more a generation than it is his own brand whistle. And then doing the same thing, but buying the same size brass tube and making holes for an 'A' whistle. Is still a lot closer to a Gen Bb than it is his own brand of whistle.

The new G, I cant decide where the line is where it stops being tweaked. Because this obviously does have a lot of differences from a Gen Bb, and Gen doesnt make a low G. But, its still using their head for its main sound. So at the same time, it feels more like stealing to say its a "Freeman Pro Low G Whistle", when its their head, which is where most of the tone and characteristics come from.

So to me, saying tweaked generation is giving the ma lot mroe credit, than saying its his own brand and giving them none. But you do haev a point in that it could also be using the name for marketing.

Whats funny tho is that the blue and black head whistles are bluebird and blackbird (but they do still say tweaked). But the red aren't redbird, they are just tweaked generation.
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Re: Jerry Freeman Low G

Post by pancelticpiper »

I made my own Mezzo A body for a Generation Bb head using brass tubing from a hobby shop that happened to be slightly larger diameter than the original Generation Bb tubing.

It was done out of convenience, it being the tubing I had available.

It's my guess that it plays a bit better than it would have done had I used actual Generation tubing, a bit more full on the low notes. Actually it's the best Mezzo A whistle I've ever played; I like it a bit better than the Freeman I tried (which appeared to use the Generation-diameter tubing) and the Sindt I owned (which was part of a three-body one-head set A/Bb/B).

Here's my home-made Mezzo A, at left.

Image

I do have a Mezzo G whistle from Jerry which appears to use the Generation-diameter tubing.

The tuning over the 2 octaves is perfect, as is always the case with Freeman whistles.

It's a very sweet player, with very easy high notes, and has a quite lovely tone.

I wasn't expecting a tone like that! It's got a bit of that Kaval-like thing that MK Low D's have.

So the whistle's nimbleness and easy high notes makes it great for fast tunes, and the distinct tone makes it great for airs.
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Re: Jerry Freeman Low G

Post by JTU »

Interesting enough discussion but none of it addresses my original question asking if anyone has tried the new aluminium tubing G and how does that sound compared to the brass tubing. I can hear (or at least I think I can) a distinct difference between the two when listening to Kevin Crawford’s YouTube demonstrations of them both. However video audio on YouTube can be hard to compare for all sorts of reasons. Jerry told me via email that he thinks the low g aluminium is “one of the best whistles” he has made. If I go by the YouTube audio as it sounds on my iPad I prefer the sound of the brass tube as to me the aluminium sounds similar to other aluminium whistles, namely a bit too clean and pure if that makes sense.
Thanks
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Re: Jerry Freeman Low G

Post by Tyler DelGregg »

As far as I know, Jerry does not use aluminum. Are you certain the brass didn't look like aluminum due to the lighting, etc. ? I'm very curious myself, now.
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Re: Jerry Freeman Low G

Post by RoberTunes »

Tyler DelGregg wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 7:23 am As far as I know, Jerry does not use aluminum. Are you certain the brass didn't look like aluminum due to the lighting, etc. ? I'm very curious myself, now.
Definitely an aluminum tube for the low G in that video. I wonder from what whistle company the tube is coming from, and what whistle company
the large gray tuning slide/mouthpiece attachment section comes from, suppliers who aren't getting credited in that video, in arbitrary favor of calling the whole Frankenwhistle
a "tweaked Generation" which is simply WAY off the mark.

Looking forward to the Freeman "tweaked Tesla" sedans.
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Re: Jerry Freeman Low G

Post by pancelticpiper »

RoberTunes wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 10:43 am ...calling the whole Frankenwhistle a "tweaked Generation" which is off the mark.
But if he just called the whistle a "Jerry Freeman whistle" people would be here criticising him, saying "he's using a Generation head, not one he made!"
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Re: Jerry Freeman Low G

Post by Steve Bliven »

RoberTunes wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 10:43 am Definitely an aluminum tube for the low G in that video. I wonder from what whistle company the tube is coming from, and what whistle company
the large gray tuning slide/mouthpiece attachment section comes from, suppliers who aren't getting credited in that video, in arbitrary favor of calling the whole Frankenwhistle
a "tweaked Generation" which is simply WAY off the mark.
As mentioned above, "Jerry makes his own G and A bodies". He doesn't mention who mines the bauxite or makes the drills for the fingerholes—hope they're not offended. But he does use a tweaked Gen head and he has to call it something...

Best wishes.

Steve
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Re: Jerry Freeman Low G

Post by JTU »

In my opinion it would be more of an ethical mis-step to ignore the reference to “Generation “ in the description particularly given that the head used is a tweaked generation whatever the type of body used. Can you reasonably grab a whistle head from a maker tweak it and then ignore the brand of head used in your description of the whistle? Also don’t forget that the “generation sound” is what many makers strive to achieve and they reference that fact in their advertising material.
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Re: Jerry Freeman Low G

Post by AngelicBeaver »

JTU wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 5:36 pm In my opinion it would be more of an ethical mis-step to ignore the reference to “Generation “ in the description particularly given that the head used is a tweaked generation whatever the type of body used. Can you reasonably grab a whistle head from a maker tweak it and then ignore the brand of head used in your description of the whistle? Also don’t forget that the “generation sound” is what many makers strive to achieve and they reference that fact in their advertising material.
Cheers
I think that hits the nail on the head. I tend to call them 'Freeman Tweaked Generation-style whistles', which avoids the confusion of people thinking there is a stock Generation alto G out there, but the name is still very descriptive of what the product is, which is an effort to translate the Generation sound and feel into lower keys, using a modified Generation head. I'd imagine Generation has a very good working relationship with Mr. Freeman (it's a small, family owned company, and the owner has chatted with me on Facebook), and if they're not complaining, then I don't see why anyone else would.
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Re: Jerry Freeman Low G

Post by stringbed »

AngelicBeaver wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 7:59 am I tend to call them 'Freeman Tweaked Generation-style whistles', which avoids the confusion of people thinking there is a stock Generation alto G out there, but the name is still very descriptive of what the product is…
What’s the difference between a Generation-style whistle and any other cylindrical metal whistle with a plastic mouthpiece?
Last edited by stringbed on Sun May 15, 2022 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jerry Freeman Low G

Post by Jerry Freeman »

So far the only tenor G tweaked Generation in circulation is the one Kevin Crawford is playing in the youtube video. He really liked that whistle and took it for his own use (he also took the Enat whistle and posted on Facebook about how much he needed a good high Enat whistle and how happy he is with that one I gave him). I'm in the middle of a run of tenor Gs in anticipation of incoming orders from the announcement, so there will be plenty available.

1. Yes, this whistle has an aluminum tonebody. I made prototypes with several different brass and aluminum tubings of different wall thickness to discover the optimal length to bore ratio for this whistle. Brass tubing with close to a suitable wall thickness was too heavy and still didn't have quite a narrow enough inner diameter so I went to aluminum. In addition to providing the ideal length to bore ratio, the aluminum is a much more comfortable weight (Kevin remarked about this). I was very impressed with the result.

2. The socket extension I designed myself and make in my workshop on my South Bend Heavy 10 machinist lathe. It's made from schedule 80 PVC plumbing pipe, which is why the socket extension is gray. That's the color of schedule 80 PVC pipe. Both the inside and outside diameters I machine on the lathe to produce the finished part. It is not an "off the shelf" part, especially considering that the piece of pipe I started with was ten feet long and the finished part is one and five-eighths inches long.

3. To create that whistlehead requires extensive machining of the original Generation mouthpiece. The outside of the socket has to be turned on the lathe to create the correct cylindrical dimension to fit inside the the socket extension so they can be permanently joined into a single piece. The inside of the socket has to be bored to open the throat of the whistlehead. A taper has to be bored into the end of the socket so the end of the socket is the same diameter as the tonebody. It's not a simple tweak. When I have time I'll take some pictures. It's interesting stuff.

4. I've been calling my whistles "tweaked Generations" for many years and that name seems to convey well enough what they are. Occasionally someone says, "I didn't know Generation makes a whistle in (whatever key) and I or someone else explains to them what I do to create the keys Generation doesn't make. Calling them "Generation style" whistles simply isn't accurate. These are tweaked Generations. Feadogs and Waltons and Clares, etc. are Generation style whistles. I tweak the whistles in many ways to get the results I strive for. Sometimes the tweak involves a new tonebody. I am especially vigilant to capture the true Generation voicing. These are tweaked Generations. (Mellow Dogs and Blackbirds, btw, are made with tweaked Feadog whistleheads. I don't call them "tweaked Feadogs" because the voicings bear no resemblance whatever to Feadogs. Calling them "tweaked Feadogs" would only confuse people. They have their own identities, entirely independent of the fact that the whistleheads started as Feadogs. They are Mellow Dogs and Blackbirds.)

5. Regarding the tone of the new wider body tenor G tweaked Generation compared to the original tenor G, they're very similar but the original, narrow bore tenor G is quieter. It's noticeably quieter than my alto A tweaked Generation, for example, which has the same diameter tonebody and the same whistlehead tweaking scheme as the G but is a standard bore whistle because it's a full step higher in key. Because the new tenor G is a standard body whistle, it has a stronger, louder tone than the original, narrow bore, tenor G. The original tweaked Generation tenor G is a lovely whistle and I will continue to offer it for sale.

With my best wishes,
Jerry Freeman
You can purchase my whistles on eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/freemanwhistle ... pg=&_from=

or directly from me:

email jerry ("at") freemanwhistles ("dot") com or send a PM.
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