ISO plastic (PVC, polymer, etc) alto/mezzo G whistle

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stiofan
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ISO plastic (PVC, polymer, etc) alto/mezzo G whistle

Post by stiofan »

I'm interested in opinions about a synthetic-material whistle in the key of G (alto/mezzo). I'd be using it to play outdoors, or to take along with me on road trips or camping excursions, so prefer a 'plastic' whistle rather than metal or wood for this purpose. Two of the makes I've honed in on are: Goldfinch and Susato. I've heard good things recently about Goldfinch whistles, and Susato, of course, have an established reputation (I'm not too concerned about the so-called recorder-ish tone of the Susato, which I know some players don't care for). However, I'm a bit of a stickler about stiffness in the top of the second octave. The Goldfinch G has a 18mm ID (per Jakub Szczygieł) but I haven't found any info on the bore size of the Susato Kildare in G, nor did Susato offer up that info when I emailed them recently, though my guess is that it's larger than the Goldfinch's 18mm.
So, just wondering if folks have any experience with alto/mezzo whistles by Goldfinch (and yes, I know Angelic Beaver has reviewed pretty much the entire range of Goldfinches) or Susato -- or if there are any other synthetic G whistles to recommend. Thanks for listening!
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Re: ISO plastic (PVC, polymer, etc) alto/mezzo G whistle

Post by fatmac »

I have an ABS low G whistle made by Tony Dixon, (but only available pre used, as he doesn't make them any more).

I think it's a very good whistle. :thumbsup:
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Re: ISO plastic (PVC, polymer, etc) alto/mezzo G whistle

Post by Narzog »

If you look at the S Series section on the susato website, the G body goes on the same headpiece as the Bb. So the Bb will be much harder to overblow than the G. It definitely doesnt have a 18mm inner bore diameter. The size up has an 18mm ish diameter, measuring from the tuning slide side of the bore because its conical and smaller at the exit (I measured my low E).

I had the low G and didnt think it was overly stiff in the second octave. It wasnt a super easy overblower either, it was in the middle somewhere. Which is good. If it overblow too easily then it would just have no low end, which I personally hate. I bought it for used cheap to try but sold it because I didnt care for the tone and had another G. But overall it did play well. Excellent tuning. Air use and stuff was good. Much better than the low E, which is less air efficient than I'd like. So if you are fine with the Susato tone it could be a good option.
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stiofan
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Re: ISO plastic (PVC, polymer, etc) alto/mezzo G whistle

Post by stiofan »

Narzog wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:35 am If you look at the S Series section on the susato website, the G body goes on the same headpiece as the Bb. So the Bb will be much harder to overblow than the G. It definitely doesnt have a 18mm inner bore diameter. The size up has an 18mm ish diameter, measuring from the tuning slide side of the bore because its conical and smaller at the exit (I measured my low E).

I had the low G and didnt think it was overly stiff in the second octave. It wasnt a super easy overblower either, it was in the middle somewhere. Which is good. If it overblow too easily then it would just have no low end, which I personally hate. I bought it for used cheap to try but sold it because I didnt care for the tone and had another G. But overall it did play well. Excellent tuning. Air use and stuff was good. Much better than the low E, which is less air efficient than I'd like. So if you are fine with the Susato tone it could be a good option.
Hmm...are you suggesting using a Bb head on the G body? Hadn't thought of that. And are you saying ["The size up"] the G body has <18mm bore at the tuning slide?

Of course, I could always buy both the Susato & Goldfinch, and return/sell one of them. Since this is somewhat of a secondary whistle, I'm trying to keep it as uncomplicated as possible.
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Re: ISO plastic (PVC, polymer, etc) alto/mezzo G whistle

Post by stiofan »

fatmac wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:16 am I have an ABS low G whistle made by Tony Dixon, (but only available pre used, as he doesn't make them any more).

I think it's a very good whistle. :thumbsup:
Right, I knew Dixon had phased out that model some time ago. Glad you got one you like.
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Re: ISO plastic (PVC, polymer, etc) alto/mezzo G whistle

Post by Narzog »

stiofan wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 2:05 pm Hmm...are you suggesting using a Bb head on the G body? Hadn't thought of that. And are you saying ["The size up"] the G body has <18mm bore at the tuning slide?

Of course, I could always buy both the Susato & Goldfinch, and return/sell one of them. Since this is somewhat of a secondary whistle, I'm trying to keep it as uncomplicated as possible.
So the way Susatos work, (and any others who sell multiple bodies with one head), is that the head is the same for all their whistles of that bore size, the body is just longer with its own hole placement for that key. So you dont need to buy the Bb head and a G body. Its just the M series head, which comes on the Bb-G whistles. When you put a longer body on the same mouthpiece, it always becomes easier to overblow. Which is why after a certain point, they up the bore size and it gets a new mouthpiece. So my point in it begin a Bb head, is that putting a G body on it, cant be that hard to overblow. Because it will always overblow easier than the Bb tube would. So if the G body is hard to overblow, the Bb head would be extremely hard to overblow. So for ones like this, its usually the higher pitch one is on the stiffer side, and the lowest will be easy to overblow but not too easy. And then for low E and lower, it goes bigger bore and new mouthpiece, because an E tube would have been too weak.

Some makers could do this wrong and try to get too much out of a mnouthpiece and have it perform far from ideal. But Susato are popular and reputable for a reason.
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Re: ISO plastic (PVC, polymer, etc) alto/mezzo G whistle

Post by pancelticpiper »

With Susato over the years you don't know until you get one what the bore size will be. Unless they specify the actual ID, which they didn't do over the many years I bought and played Susatos.

I've owned two different Susato Mezzo G's and they had two different bore sizes.

I've owned three different Susato Mezzo A's and they had three different bore sizes.

And three different Susato HIgh D's with, you guessed it, three different bore sizes.

The playing characteristics varied as you might expect, the whistles with the relatively narrow bores having sweet high notes and the ones with relatively wide bores having stiff high notes.

The best-playing Mezzo Susato I had was a Mezzo A that used the of the High D tubings they were using at that time. It was quiet, sweet, and perfectly in tune.

Currently, since I've sold off my Susato collection, I only have one: an early Susato Mezzo G which is a bold player. It's their earliest style with no injection-moulding, rather it's machined out of ABS stock, with a wooden block.
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Re: ISO plastic (PVC, polymer, etc) alto/mezzo G whistle

Post by Narzog »

pancelticpiper wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:24 am With Susato over the years you don't know until you get one what the bore size will be. Unless they specify the actual ID, which they didn't do over the many years I bought and played Susatos.
Huh, I didnt know that. I hate when makers change things without giving version names or anything. Because theres no way to know what your really going to get. Although, now that they are injection molded, I dont think a lot will be changing. Making molds is pretty hard and expensive. So its probable that the ones I've played are the current gen. But who knows they could change parts of their molds.
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Re: ISO plastic (PVC, polymer, etc) alto/mezzo G whistle

Post by stiofan »

Narzog wrote:
So the way Susatos work, (and any others who sell multiple bodies with one head), is that the head is the same for all their whistles of that bore size, the body is just longer with its own hole placement for that key. So you dont need to buy the Bb head and a G body. Its just the M series head, which comes on the Bb-G whistles. When you put a longer body on the same mouthpiece, it always becomes easier to overblow. Which is why after a certain point, they up the bore size and it gets a new mouthpiece. So my point in it begin a Bb head, is that putting a G body on it, cant be that hard to overblow. Because it will always overblow easier than the Bb tube would. So if the G body is hard to overblow, the Bb head would be extremely hard to overblow. So for ones like this, its usually the higher pitch one is on the stiffer side, and the lowest will be easy to overblow but not too easy. And then for low E and lower, it goes bigger bore and new mouthpiece, because an E tube would have been too weak.
Thanks for clarifying the multiple bodies/one head thing, especially the overblowing issue. I recall hearing about Susato's approach with that years ago, but haven't had much occasion to consider it until now.
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Re: ISO plastic (PVC, polymer, etc) alto/mezzo G whistle

Post by stiofan »

pancelticpiper wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:24 am With Susato over the years you don't know until you get one what the bore size will be. Unless they specify the actual ID, which they didn't do over the many years I bought and played Susatos.

I've owned two different Susato Mezzo G's and they had two different bore sizes.

I've owned three different Susato Mezzo A's and they had three different bore sizes.

And three different Susato HIgh D's with, you guessed it, three different bore sizes.

The playing characteristics varied as you might expect, the whistles with the relatively narrow bores having sweet high notes and the ones with relatively wide bores having stiff high notes.

The best-playing Mezzo Susato I had was a Mezzo A that used the of the High D tubings they were using at that time. It was quiet, sweet, and perfectly in tune.

Currently, since I've sold off my Susato collection, I only have one: an early Susato Mezzo G which is a bold player. It's their earliest style with no injection-moulding, rather it's machined out of ABS stock, with a wooden block.
Now that I think about it, I seem to recall you've mentioned the variation in bore sizes with Susatos over the years, so thanks for sharing that insight again. I appreciate narrower-bore whistles for the easier/more relaxed upper register, but in my recent communication with Susato, they weren't very forthcoming about bore sizes.

I'm leaning toward ordering a Goldfinch at this point to see how I like it, and have had top-notch communication with Jakub Szczygieł so far. I think I might also prefer the slightly slimmer profile of the beak on the Goldfinch vs. Susato, but as you always remind us, there's only one way to find out -- to play it and see for oneself! :)
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Re: ISO plastic (PVC, polymer, etc) alto/mezzo G whistle

Post by Narzog »

stiofan wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:50 pm I'm leaning toward ordering a Goldfinch at this point to see how I like it, and have had top-notch communication with Jakub Szczygieł so far. I think I might also prefer the slightly slimmer profile of the beak on the Goldfinch vs. Susato, but as you always remind us, there's only one way to find out -- to play it and see for oneself! :)
Having good communications with a maker always boost my motivation to buy from them. If they ignore me I buy used if I still even want their instrument lol. I will say I find the susato mouthpiece pretty underwhelming. Its kinda fat and just doesnt feel as good as some others. So that should be a + for the goldfinch.
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