Learning tunes by ear

[kennychaffin]

( i'm very sorry for starting a 35476-th thread with such title on this board )


The only right way to learn new tunes is learning by ear. Full stop. Learning tunes by ear is the only way of "getting the idea" if irish music for a newbie. Full stop. If you want to be able to learn tunes by ear, start learning them by ear. Full stop. That's how it is usually written in numerous tutors, books, webpages, posts on messageboards... I'm sure that's all true. But I can't do that.

Moreover. My playing is like "OK, I move my fingers this way, and if I blow into that hole at the same time, there will be some sort of tune". That's wrong, that's terribly wrong. I don't want it to be like that.

I'm not sure what is the best way to change that, but some people say learning by ear can help.

I tried doing that few times, but failed. I either do not get the tune, or get it completely wrong. I can't lilt tunes also (no matter if I can play them or not), neither I can sing songs. "I can't" means I can lilt the rhythm of the tune, but not the pitch of the notes.

That sucks.

I'm playing tinwhistle (and recorder before it) for 1.5 years already, and I suppose it's time to start changing. Any ideas on what to start from? I mean, I've heard a "start from easy tunes, move on to more complicated ones" answer many times, but it seems I need a bit more specific advice


Will be very grateful for your answers.

Well, I'm probably late to the party here, but I think different strokes for different folks. I'm more in your camp, I have a heck of a time leaning by ear, but can read and play from notation without a problem. Where the problem lies with Celtic music like The Blues is in the ornamentation and variation, that feeling that you give the music with phrasing, tone, gracenotes, bending/slides etc.

[Tootler]

Well, I'm probably late to the party here, but I think different strokes for different folks. I'm more in your camp, I have a heck of a time leaning by ear, but can read and play from notation without a problem. Where the problem lies with Celtic music like The Blues is in the ornamentation and variation, that feeling that you give the music with phrasing, tone, gracenotes, bending/slides etc.

I agree with this. Different people learn in different ways.

Two things I do think, though. First; to play a tune well you really need to be able to sing it, so although I mostly learn tunes from dots, I don't really feel I know them until I can sing/hum them to myself.

I also sing and I mostly learn songs by ear since, though I can read music reasonably fluently, I have never learnt to sing from dots, so I either learn songs by listening to recordings or by getting hold of the dots and singing along to my concertina until I have the tune in my head.

Second; however you learn, one thing is important is listening to others playing. Recordings are fine, but tune sets in recordings are often show pieces and so, not necessarily the best examples. The best way, if you are able is to get to know other musicians, especially if they are experienced. A good musician is always willing to pass on their knowledge.

[FearNot]

After a while, without really realizing what I was doing, I started memorizing the sounds. I could hear the tune in my head and make my fingers go where they needed to go to match that sound.

I think walrii has hit the mark. It's not popular, but you have to learn the notes first. When first starting out I spent the first half hour just going through the scale until my head and fingers learned what to do to get a particular sound. Even now I spend the first 10 minutes or so running through scales and note combinations. Once I had the sound in my head and fingers the rest was easy. Start small - with just the first several bars and get them right then add a few more. Once the notes are right, then start adding ornamentation.

Just my humble thoughts - others' mileage may vary.

[breqwas]

to play a tune well you really need to be able to sing it

Ohhh.
I can't sing "jingle bells" (and never could), how can I sing a jig?..

[Carey]

You don't have to sing it out loud for everyone to hear if that's what you are thinking. You can stop at the point where you can sing in it your head. The point is you need to know what you want to sound like in great detail, because it is those details that are nigh on impossible to describe that make the sound you are looking for. And you have to know it well enough to replay it in your head so you can play along with that tune in your head.

Are there no popular songs that get stuck in your head and you can't shut them off? (Some people call them ear worms.) How do they get in there? Figure that out for your case and put some tunes in there the same way.

[Jack Bradshaw]

( I'm not trying to say something bad about polkas - I love them when they are good, but I've spent one hour trying to learn <a href="http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=TGx9sEIo5LM">this one</a> by ear, and failed. Seems that good tunes are never straitforward. )

A little off topic, but has anyone figured how to download the sound from U-Tube to mp3 ?

(I realy like that polka !)

[breqwas]

A little off topic, but has anyone figured how to download the sound from U-Tube to mp3 ?

http://www.vidtomp3.com/

And here's the ABC of the tune (more or less):

X:1
T:Rut's Polka
M:2/4
L:2/4
K:Bm
f/e/|:dB bB|de f>e|dB bB|c>A/c/ e>f/e/|dB bB|de f>e|df ed|1B3 f/e/:|2B3 g|
|:ff ba|fe f>e|dB bB|c>A/c/ e>e|ff ba|fe f>e|df ed|1B3 g:|2B3|

[Jack Bradshaw]

Great ! Thanks !

[Tootler]

to play a tune well you really need to be able to sing it

Ohhh.
I can't sing "jingle bells" (and never could), how can I sing a jig?..

Carey has it right. You kind of sing in your head. Often I sort of subvocalise - it's hard to describe exactly but it is a kind of breathy whistling from the back of your tongue and you can do it very quietly.

When I am learning a song, I annoy my daughter because I do this so it can be just heard. She can hear I am singing something, but not what.

BTW, you will probably find you can sing. If you can play an instrument, you can sing. I used to think like you, but then I went on a weekend workshop and "discovered" my voice. I find singing and playing reinforce each other. Because you have to listen, I find it improves my sense of pitch.

Geoff

Edited to correct some bad grammar.

[charlie_butterworth]

With the exception of early childhood, I have always learned tunes from written music - dots on a piece of paper.

Until yesterday!

The starter of this thread stated difficulties in learning music by ear. I guess that choice of piece is important.

Yesterday, my whistle teacher played me an air/waltz called On A Cold Winter's Morning. It is not too fast and falls under the fingers. He began by having me play the scale G maj. It felt really difficult at first, but I managed the first phrase.

I spent an hour or so today (luckily at home with a head cold) playing through the MP3 he sent me by email. Using GarageBand on the Mac, I was able to repeat phrases until I had learnt them.

Anyway, I have the piece memorized pretty well, although I have yet to add ornamentation.

If I can do it, then I am sure that anyone can do it! OK, so I am learning from a solo whistle recording that is quite simple rather than a CD with a fast track which includes other instruments.

Maybe using a computer to assist with ear learning is not strictly traditional, but I think I have a deeper appreciation and learning of the tune, than if I had learnt it from written music.

Charlie

[MTGuru]

With the exception of early childhood

Aha, there you have it. Recapture what you could once do naturally.

[Denny]

I was doin' okay 'till the 1st wife....

[sbfluter]

I think it can be hard to learn to play by ear just any old tune you hear and like when you are new to the instrument. You have to give yourself a chance to learn how to play the darn thing. If that requires that a few tunes are "sacrificed" to sheet music, then so be it.

Humans may have an innate ability for language, but children, even older ones like teenagers, have trouble getting their thoughts into words until they have enough vocabulary.

Just keep practicing your ear training at the same time. Eventually you'll find some tunes that are easy to learn by ear.

Also, don't underestimate the power of re-learning tunes you already learned. I like to re-learn them by hearing how fiddle or box players play them.

[s1m0n]

Carey has it right. You kind of sing in your head.

If you can't do this, the advice won't help you to figger out how. Learn to play any way you can, and then play and play and play and play.

And eventually, stuff will start making sense. In fact, one day your fingers will startle you completely, by running away without your brain, playing some tune you've heard a lot but never learned. Holy sh!t! you'll think, and as soon as that your fingers get lost again and you'll sit there thinking, "How did I do that?"

For me, it was listening to my friend trying to learn how to play Lord Inchquin on his harmonica. All he had was mouthharp tab, and at some point I picked up my flute to demonstrate the timing for a roll in irish music (tricky to show in harp tab, I gather!) and my fingers ran away without me to the end of the A part. I was shocked.

[kennychaffin]

.... In fact, one day your fingers will startle you completely, by running away without your brain, playing some tune you've heard a lot but never learned. Holy sh!t! you'll think, and as soon as that your fingers get lost again and you'll sit there thinking, "How did I do that?"
....

ain't it true! the amazement and then the shock at not being able to repeat it.