Friendly Proposition

[azw]

At first I liked the idea. On second thought it seems too difficult for a community that rarely or never meets face-to-face to determine each others' degree of expertness.

And, frankly, I wouldn't want to be burdened with an expert label.

Moreover, there are software limitations to consider. You can have any feature you like if you've got the bucks, but we'll probably want to work with the built-in features of phpBB. (Now there's something I know well.)

The ranks feature of phpBB (our software) allows you to indicate a member's respected "status" (or whatever you're going to call it) by assigning a rank to an individual member. (The upcoming new version of phpBB 3.0 will still have ranks that work the same as the current version.)

It would be awkward to have a different rank fro every expert, so to make it manageable you'd have to decide on a limited number of categories, like "Respected instrument maker", "Respected musician", and "Respected musicologist".

Some of the suggestions (especially the ones with multiple lines of descriptions) would be very difficult or impossible to do with the built-in ranks feature. Multiple lines could be done with the signature feature, but that's not a good idea because any member can change their signature. Half of us could post that we're grand poobahs.

As for the idea of requiring folks to have content in their profiles, the software does not have a built-in way to require everyone to include something in there profile. The software could be customized, but our admins would have to add those modifications back into the software every time they upgrade it (usually several times a year). It'd be a pain in the arse. Worse, the software has no means of asking/requiring those of us who have already registered to go back and add something to our profiles. That'd be a real headache.

Hmm, you know what? I don't really need a status system. From my first days here, I could pretty much tell who knows what they're talking about. I like the fact that I can often get opposing viewpoints, and I'd hate to squelch that diversity. Best of all, no one is going to die as a result of our opinions, so where's the need?

[pkev]

Hi there,

FWIW, I'm for leaving this idea well enough alone.

I just think the `moderators` and `members` are all the titles we need at C&F.

Perhaps the idea of more moderators would be helpful to keep board members in line.

If there are `specialists` required to manage the `topics` then I would suggest the only credentials if any, should lean towards being good at `facilitating` or `moderating` the boards. ie good at working with people.

People who are good at providing a balanced view, good at communicating and pulling in the `reigns` when required.

You can have as many `credentials` for making or playing as you want but that doesn't mean to say your `facilitating` and `moderating skills` are the same.

OTOH, I don't think a bonafide `psychologist` is required for the boards either.............although I sometimes wonder!.

Regardless of anyone's credentials or expertise, they are `members`of C&F and as such are `accountable` in the main to the moderators and site policies / guidelines.

So perhaps more input from existing moderators on the topics and if the workload is going to be heavier, assign a few more moderators to help.

Cheers
pkev

[jlunt]

While there have been some very reasonable concerns brought up in this thread about how to qualify the expertise of a musician (which by the nature of the field is a very subjective thing), I still think it has merit.

To use myself as an example: I've only been playing for a couple of months. Joanie Madden's opinion on playing should certainly hold way more weight than mine. Someone brand new to the forum and brand new to whistling is entitled to know that, while I may have my own opinion, her thoughts or advice is backed by years of best-selling recordings and world renown.

Similarly, I have made my own low-tech whistle, and it sounds alright. But there are several professional whistle makers on this forum who, because they have proven themselves time and again with their whistles being played around the world, should have their thoughts on whistle making held in higher regard. It doesn't necessarily mean my opinion is wrong, but a complete newbie is entitled to know that brewerpaul's advice holds much more weight than jlunt's.

To ramble on just a little bit further (I promise), I read with interest many of these threads. I have been helped by many forum members - including those who have only been playing for a few days. Keen insight can come from anyone. But it means something to me when I can engage in a discussion in a thread with someone who's whistle I own or whose recordings I listen to. I mean, how cool is that! (Here I should insert the proper emoticon for "blown away" but I couldn't find it.)

[scottkent]

At first I thought this sounded pretty good. But then again I couldn't figure out where the distinctions would lie. I mean, is a published author of material pertaining to the Irish whistle given special status? If so, then how does one distinguish between the L.E. CcCulloughs and the Michael Hamiltons of this world ? I could certainly understand giving a special title to one who has won all Ireland, but other titles or claims would be a bit harder to actually pin down.

[crookedtune]

I'm kinda with the rest. At first I liked it, and then (as Mitch reminded us) I remembered that our profiles give us the opportunity to describe ourselves adequately.

I've been active for about a year, and I've really never had a problem deciding whose opinion to give weight to. In life you learn to separate useful stuff from static.

Hey, here's a thought: Let's name the list members who best qualify as "static", and put a little red 'S' icon on their signatures!!!

[Wanderer]

I have been thinking about this for a while before posting. I've been on the discussion board for years, and seen people come and go. This place has never been anything more than an informal gathering of people who share what knowledge they know, be it great or little.

Most new players post do so with a certain amount of humility. "I've only been playing a couple months, but.." or "Yeah, I'm new and was having that problem too, and this is what seems to work for me.." Occasionally, we get the know-it-all new player who posts like an expert, even though they aren't. But I've noticed that board population in general is quick to put that into perspective when it happens.

People have made some good points: There's no board certification for expertise in whistling. Additionally, just because someone is new or unheard of doesn't mean that they aren't a brilliant player, or that they can't have a brilliant idea, or even that they can't have brilliant advice. And just because someone is an expert player doesn't mean that they're good teachers, or give good advice, or even have your best interests at heart. Though I haven't seen it here (that I recall), I've definitely seen 20-year fiddle players give blatantly bad advice to fiddler wanna-bes because they didn't want any competition for getting gigs later on down the road.

I have been asking myself about the motive: to prevent confusion for newbies. I think most people have said that in a short amount of time, they've come to their own conclusions about who to listen to for advice. I'm forced to ask myself "Has anyone's whistling truly been egregiously harmed by the discussions here because we didn't have 'certified experts'(tm)?" Is that really what's going to be solved with this idea?

I don't think so, personally. Now what I have seen over the years, on more than one occasion, was the leaving (either in a huff or not) of old-timers, professional musicians, and the like, because they didn't get the veneration they felt they deserved from new board members.

Who really is going to be served by these "badges of honor"? I'd submit that it'd mostly be these guys...the experts who have decided that they are fed up for not getting the reverence they are due, and want some deference and homage.

Last I checked, this was still just a discussion board, and the discussions here were fairly informal. Do we really need to start setting up cults of personality and putting certain people on pedestals? If someone has credentials they'd like to share, by all means, they should share them. I personally don't think official titles of nobility are at all necessary.

(edits for typos)

[Doc Jones]

Do we really need to start setting up cults of personality and putting certain people on pedestals? If someone has credentials they'd like to share, by all means, they should share them. I personally don't think official titles of nobility are at all necessary.

Good point all Wanderer. I agree that Identifying someone as a "Mentor " or Poobah" was a bad idea. That is just heading fro trouble on manylevels. I'd throw that out. Still, if someone like L.E. McCoullogh (pardon my spelling L.E.) Is around why not give him a nod.

I'm not suggesting that any but the most universally accepted be so designated. And not that they be granted any special status but just that the fact of their credential be noted. We all know who they are. Dale knows who they are. Why not let the newbiws know who they are?

Doc

[pkev]

Hi there,

Just some more thoughts on this thread.

In the true `Spirit of Traditional Music`and to my mind, C&F was set up for the people by the people. That in my view means `ordinary` people, not `professionals`, `experts` or `mentors.

I would emphasis the `role` of moderators as in my previous post.

In any case even if one were given special `status`, what does that actually mean. what would their actual remit be?, what powers of control would they have over the topics & threads posted?.

I doubt very much that it would add anything to the way the forums are being `moderated` at the moment.

What might be helpful, is to have a

`Mentor`forum that beginners can access and engage with if they so `choose`.

A `makers` forum for folks to access and engage with if they so `choose`.

Other than that, it is a `no brainer` as far as I'm concerned.

pkev

[Adrian]

I'm still a newbie and probably will be for a very long time to come but when I was a NEW newbie I know I would have liked to have known who the experts were. Over time I have got to know who some of them are but back at the beginning it was not so easy to know who to listen to.

[PhilO]

Doc - This and you are part of what makes the Board a pretty cool place as is; nice idea, but, alas, I'm pretty much with Wanderer on this one. Also, when a name like LE McCullough comes up, most will already have known who this is by way of some prior discussion (hopefully); and, I'm not sure his or any other professional's opinion is necessarily worth more than others on specific stuff like "which is the best cheapie."

Yes, there are times when people who've been around for a long time herein get cranky about the same old questions over and over without newbies doing searches or even bothering to scan the most recent topic page, and other times when people just helpfully answer the questions again and hopefully even with a new twist or additional info or perspective.

People have also gotten huffy about the lack of talk re the music and emphasis on whistles, but this is the type of "loose" Board this is and if you don't like the talk you can skip or tune it out easily.

All in all a cool place as is, yet an interesting idea. Perhaps instead of the sort of self nominating idea, Dale and a few selected individuals (as he did with administration) could designate, with permission, a group listed somewhere as a source for various areas like music theory, whistle history, collection, tweaking, trading, playing (last but not least).

I dunno....

Philo

[jlunt]

What might be helpful, is to have a

`Mentor`forum that beginners can access and engage with if they so `choose`.

A `makers` forum for folks to access and engage with if they so `choose`.

Good idea, pkev. Forget what I said in my last post. This idea is better. This would give the newbies (like me) a place to go for more recognized authorities (forgive the term, I couldn't come up with a more appropriate one) if they so choose, while leaving the forum itself with the casual, democratic spirit that I, for one, enjoy.

[WyoBadger]

Well, darn, it seems that the concensus is toward not awarding titles based on experience, expertise, or good looks.

But what the heck, I'll have a go.

I hereby appoint myself Expert, Mentor, Giver of Sage Advice, Grand Poobah, and Worthy of Veneration in the Following Areas:
Blowing too hard and squeaking during live acoustic gigs.
Creatively loosing and/or destroying my favorite whistles.
Forgetting what key a tune is in.
Speeding up the tempo during really difficult sections
(especially when it's difficult for the other musicians).
Attempting to play bodhran with a guitar pick, and guitar with a tipper.

There's much more, but that should be enough to go on for now.

Seriously, one of the things that's fun (and occasionally maddening) about the board, just like real life, is getting to know people and learning whom to take seriously, whom to laugh with/at, and whom to blow off completely. I wonder which category I fit in? I guess it depends on the day.

Tom

[Kerry]

I nominate Dale as Grand Poobah.


Good idea in theory, but not so good in practice. Personally I just look at someone's avatar and if I looks good I trust their judgement regarding whistles.

[scottkent]

I nominate Dale as Grand Poobah.


Good idea in theory, but not so good in practice. Personally I just look at someone's avatar and if I looks good I trust their judgement regarding whistles.

By the Way, I see that your's has the information that you're from Frederick, MD. Cool place...really cool for those of us that ran the first marathon there a few years back. That was the one where the snow storm hit right as the starter gun went off. I completed 26.2 miles as 3 inches of snow fell. Thank God for the guy handing out bloody marys around mile 5. I was so close to frozen after the run that the paramedics were complaining about the shade of blue I had turned...I told them they should see the shade of blue of the parts my running shorts covered. I think it was after that marathon that I decided to take up the whistle. Not that this has anything to do with member status, but if anyone needs an expert on the relative merits of the whistle as opposed to running 26.2 miles in a snowstorm...I am available.

[Kerry]

scottkent,

So that we don't get too far off topic I sent you a PM.

Kerry