Frustration!

[lemccullough]

PAULSDAD -- I empathize; playing Irish music on the whistle sounds and looks easier than it is, as you've discovered.

I managed to figure it out by stumbling along and getting incredibly lucky in meeting a wonderful assortment of musicians who generously shared their music and knowledge. Last time I was in NC, there were a bunch of fine players, so just keep reaching out. You'll find your musical soul crew.

In terms of marking your own progress, it's really an individual thing.

The Bad News -- there are no shortcuts, no one-strike magic bullet fixes. You’ll need to put in many hundreds of hours of listening and practicing alone and playing with others in small groups and in big sessions.

The Good News -- there are no shortcuts, no one-strike magic bullet fixes. You’ll need to put in many hundreds of hours of listening and practicing alone and playing with others in small groups and in big sessions.

And when you're done, you'll have learned so much about yourself and the music. Both worthy goals, don't you think?

Irish traditional music is deceptively simple. Yes, the melodies aren’t that complex and, no, the whistle isn’t a physically demanding instrument. But to play it in a manner acceptable to the members of the tradition, you have to master a fair amount of technical nuance and stylistic subtlety that goes deeper than just tooting out the notes in time. It's a commitment, for sure, like any other endeavor.

Learning music is like learning a spoken language. You memorize the basic syntax and vocabulary, then you have to immerse yourself among native speakers in everyday environments. You might end up occasionally getting on the wrong bus or being mis-directed to the lavatory facility of the opposite gender, but you’ll learn eventually what sounds “right” in what context and how to make those sounds.

One day — literally, one fine day when you least expect it— you’ll hear yourself and realize you can play Irish traditional music on the tinwhistle really well -- just the way you like to hear it.

Six things I've found helpful in breaking out of being a Beginning Whistle Player:

1) Decide to play the instrument the absolute best you can. Commit yourself to making the tinwhistle sound as good as any other instrument you’ve ever heard. NO excuses. No “well, this isn’t a complex instrument so I don’t have to be in tune. . . or have a clear sound. . . or use correct ornamentation.” Think like that, and you’re doomed to mediocrity. Learn every single type of ornament possible, even if you later decide not to use them. See if you can play into the third octave — just because it’s there. Dream that you are standing in the middle of the UN General Assembly and the fate of world peace hangs on your ability to play “Si Bheag Si Mhor” so beautifully that every delegate will weep and vote to suspend all war for all time. LOVE THIS INSTRUMENT WITH A COMPLETE AND TOTAL PASSION. It is your voice, your soul, your communication with the universe. Any less, and you’ll always be a beginner.

2) Decide specifically what (or who) you want to sound like — be they whistle player, flautist, fiddler, piper, accordionist, whatever. Usually when starting out you’ll hear a player or two whose playing really excites you. Imitate them slavishly, try and play tunes exactly the way they’ve recorded them, copy every single variation and idiosyncrasy, become a veritable and unapologetic Musical Clone. Then – with all that floating in your brain – ignore it and do your own thing (see #6). Imitation isn’t just the sincerest form of flattery, it’s the best way to truly ingest fundamentals of style and technique and learn how the music works. . . while acquiring the perspective to eventually create your own style.

3) Be omnivorous and voracious. Read every Irish music book, magazine and tutor you encounter, listen to every Irish traditional music recording you can beg, borrow or download. I see people on the forum asking “Which tutor should I start with?” Answer: ALL OF THEM!!! Each was written from a unique perspective of an author who had a unique set of learning and performing experiences and very likely represents a unique niche along the big wide Irish Trad Style Spectrum you need to become familiar with in its entirety. Tutors are also written at different times and places and for different publishing/commercial purposes, so don’t deprive yourself of any potential knowledge contained in what might seem an out-dated or limited-scope tutorial. Remember, the greatest players of Irish music didn’t necessarily learn from other great players. . . they took in all they could and added their own individuality to create genius.

4) Get small and tight. Play frequently with one or two people at your level who are also interested in improving and exploring the tradition in depth. Mass sessions are good for getting new tunes, but you need the intimacy of a small group you can analyze material with. I mean, really analyze: listening to recordings in detail, discussing obscure technical details, comparing different tune versions.

5) Hang with older players. Even ones who don’t at first glance seem too smooth or accomplished. It’s tempting in our celebrity-saturated culture to focus on the most popular players, the most virtuosic players, the players who dominate the festival and concert circuit and who the media brings to our attention. And certainly, they’re worth listening to. But I can only say that some of the best things I learned starting out, I learned from players who were not well known or virtuosic. They maybe just had some one small thing in their style or repertoire that appealed to me and which I absorbed and may possibly even now be unconsciously passing along to somebody else. I guess that’s the way the traditition stays alive.

6) Learn how to make variations. Variation is a major element of a melodic-based music like Irish trad. Yes, you need to learn what the “standard” way of playing a tune is. . . then learn how to vary it within the tradition’s boundaries. Variation in Irish music is learning how to get really deep in the tune so that you can keep bringing out new facets that make the tune seem interesting. Variation is what makes you a unique player and enhances your ability to grow because you learn how to manipulate the structure of the tune. Variation isn’t improvisation, though some good variations can happen spontaneously. Sometimes a variation comes to you as a mistake that you correct and refine till it works. In fact, you can mark your progress as a player by the easier it becomes for you to make a variation as you play a tune, say, at a session.

Looking back on my first couple years of playing Irish music on the whistle, these are the things I now see made a big difference in my development. I sincerely hope they prove of some benefit to you. However, I can only speak for me. I can only tell you what I did to end up playing the tinwhistle the way I do. Someone else may have other ideas, so laissez les bons temps rouler.

Best wishes,

L.E. McCullough

[Whitmores75087]

I was raised in Ireland and exposed to this music since birth. I can tell you that the modern fixation with ornamentation didn't always exist. Getting the swing of the music is more important. Maybe I have a case of sour grapes, since I don't ornament much myself. My advice would be to enjoy what you do and not worry about "progress". Play for the love of the music.

[scottkent]

I was raised in Ireland and exposed to this music since birth. I can tell you that the modern fixation with ornamentation didn't always exist. Getting the swing of the music is more important. Maybe I have a case of sour grapes, since I don't ornament much myself. My advice would be to enjoy what you do and not worry about "progress". Play for the love of the music.

Thank you...finally somebody who seems to think that playing the song is as important (if not more important) than how you onament the song. Ornamentation has reached the point where they may as well write it into the tablature. Cripes, it was originally a way to give a song some personal character, not a mandatory piece of the music. A way of making the song your own, if you will. I know some people really like ornamentation, and some fell it is an intregal part of the music, but really...in most cases the song wasn't written or composed with it, some players just added it for a bit of character. I guess I'm just tired of hearing songs with so many "BLIPS" or "BLOOPS" in them that the melody is lost.

[lemccullough]

wndr wht s mssng frm ths sntnc?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
I wonder what is missing from this sentence?

Oh, the first sentence had no vowels. It was difficult to read, difficult to comprehend, didn’t communicate what the writer intended. Most of us would dismiss it as a jumble of gibberish, especially if someone tried speaking it to us minus the vowels.

In Irish traditional music, ornaments are like vowels. Ornaments are an essential part of Irish traditional music. They’re not an idiosyncrasy or aberration or some means of showing off. They’re part of the music’s basic building blocks, and for at least two centuries master Irish musicians have been using them to construct and interpret traditional melodies.

I was fortunate to study and learn from a few of those master musicians (including Micho Russell, whose unique style is too often bandied about as a tattered battle flag for under-achievement). The first thing I learned was how to properly execute basic ornaments and how to fit them into the embellishment of the melody. I didn’t question my teachers’ use of ornaments any more than I would have taken issue with the use of vowels in the alphabet of a language I was learning.

When I started playing the music, ornaments didn't come naturally -- i.e., I wasn't able to do them at all. But I just kept playing, learning one tune after another until one day (after a year) -- boom! everything fell into place, and I was able to play in a manner approved by bonafide members of the tradition. Don't be discouraged! It WILL happen!

I don’t understand why some people are frightened or scornful of ornamentation. Being able to use ornaments will make you a more versatile, more accomplished player and a player in step with the tradition. It’s really that simple.

If you’re just starting to play Irish traditional music, I encourage you to learn how to play ornaments and feel comfortable using them. Yes, it’s a challenge, but it’s a significant element of the musical language you’re learning, so why not learn that language to the best of your ability? If you were learning a new spoken tongue, would you want to be expressive or clumsy? Attuned to conversational nuance and subtlety, or totally oblivious? Able to explore the culture’s richness or kibbitzing from the outside?

Your choice, of course, and there's no real reason to agonize over it – but you’ll find your interaction with native speakers/musicians much more gratifying if you plunge in all the way.

Best wishes,

L.E. McCullough

[Whistlin'Dixie]

I was going to stay out of this one, but oh, what the Hell.....

Thank you, L. E.

Good advice for everyone who wants to progress

M

[scottkent]

Hey L.E. I didn't mean to sound frightened or scornful of ornamentation. What I'm tired of his hearing people try to pack in as much of it as they can at the expense of the melody. "Danny Boy" sounds great on its own, but some musicians (dare I say not at your level) seem to feel that every song has to have ornamentation to such a degree that to my ear it kills the song and becomes a distraction. I've listened to the masters and I've listened to self proclaimed experts and the difference is when the music flows with ornamentation and when it seems halted by a "see what I can do" piece. I've been all over Europe (lived there for many years in the military) and I've listened to a lot of very good musicians play whistles in pubs and shows and yes they did play ornamentation, but it fit the music. It just seems to me that the facination with this part of the music here in America has reached a point of militancy in some parts and the real tradition is getting lost in the Trad. Sometimes it seems that some musicians are insisting that your sentence be rewritten as follows:

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Ieawoeiundeirwhaiatoisuu maissaoing frouuim thoiais soientoienceieio?

As you wrote in your post that you had to learn the songs and then the traditional ornamentation began to flow in later; I feel that it should be that way. I'm just embrassed by fellow musicians who give new-comers grief for not playing "trad" style. This is not a problem I've noticed on this message board, but more of one that seems to happen at festivals and sessions in various parts and to differing degrees. The people on this board actually seem to care about helping one-another, but the same can not be said in many of the festivals and cons I've seen.

[jim stone]

Some more well meant advice:

1.every time you play, practice fundamentals. For instance, play scales in D, G and A.
learn some arpeggios and practice them. The book "better, stronger, faster" by Bill Hart
is worth practicing.

2. For each ornament, practice it by itself, up and down the whistle. Divide and conquer.
Break whistle playing down into its fundamentals and practice the fundamentals
separately.

3. When you come upon a difficult passage in a tune, play it again and again very very slowly.
When you make a mistake, play the passage again and again that way too.

Learn to enjoy methodical practice. It can be done. You can get to the point where,
upon stumbling over a difficult passage, you look forward to exploring it very slowly.

This Works.

More controversial. If there isn'tmuch ITM around you,
learn Old Time music, even bluegrass, play the music that's there
to play. You can become more fluent in ITM that way too.

[Scott McCallister]

Some more well meant advice:

1.every time you play, practice fundamentals. For instance, play scales in D, G and A.
learn some arpeggios and practice them. The book "better, stronger, faster" by Bill Hart
is worth practicing.

2. For each ornament, practice it by itself, up and down the whistle. Divide and conquer.
Break whistle playing down into its fundamentals and practice the fundamentals
separately.

3. When you come upon a difficult passage in a tune, play it again and again very very slowly.
When you make a mistake, play the passage again and again that way too.

Learn to enjoy methodical practice. It can be done. You can get to the point where,
upon stumbling over a difficult passage, you look forward to exploring it very slowly.

This Works.

More controversial. If there isn'tmuch ITM around you,
learn Old Time music, even bluegrass, play the music that's there
to play. You can become more fluent in ITM that way too.

Excellent ideas and technique.

Even more controversial (tho' I'm not sure why) is to be sure to use a metronome when practicing your fundamentals. Slow perfect practice is the idea. I know it sounds weird but your brain will speed it up later.

You can also run speed drills with a metronome. Start with a manageable speed for the pulse (half notes for reels for example). Play your exercise or a tune you are really comfortable with against that pulse at a speed where you don't make ANY mistakes. This will be at a speed that is much slower than you can currently play the tune, but perfect practice makes perfect. Do this several times. Pay close attention to matching the beats in the melody to the metronome's pulse.

Now, increase the speed on the metronome by only 5 beats per minute. Keep going with this routine until you are up to "session speed". Remember, NO mistakes. This can be sort of tricky. You have to fool your mind into believing that this is possible to go that quickly and play cleanly. So here is the final trick. You want "session speed" to be in a comfortable place not the extreme of your abilities. So to bring this inside your range of tempo abilities... Go even faster a few times. Make this a larger jump in tempo maybe 10-15 Beats per minute faster than session speed. (This will be really fast.) Don't worry, you are not ever going to perform it at this speed. Consider this a type of callisthenic. You are doing stretching exercises here.

Now go back to session speed. You will be amazed now at how easy it is to play cleanly at that speed and more than learning a tune at that tempo you will have proven to yourself that you can in fact do it. This may be the biggest hurdle you face, remember you have had 10 years to get in to the habits and mindset you are currently in. Give yourself the time to change the ideas you are working under.

If you don't want to sound like you do now, do something different than you have in the past. Review your practice routine. Are you doing things that will increase your ability or are you just playing along at your same level?

There is some excellent advice given here, the best so far being "decide to do it" Things will fall into place after that.

Good luck!

[jim stone]

Good stuff!

Also probably worth keeping in mind
that improvement is gradual, usually. Determined,
rational practice will help considerably, but slowly.
Patience!

[Steve1776]

paulsdad,

40+ tunes - WOW! Congratulations - that's an accomplishment!

I am still trying to memorize tune #1. I have played it for several weeks, hundreds of times, and I still can't play it from start to finish without a glance at the music. I am also missing a note or two each time I play it even while looking at the music. Will I ever get it?

Mozart could hear a tune once and then play it in it's entirety. It is obvious I am no Mozart.

Still I am having great fun playing and hope you are to. I try to immerse myself in the piece and enjoy it fully and not get worried about the pace of my progress. Live in the moment, in joy!

[jim stone]

About timing: I'm told there are old men in Ireland who sit in the park and make their whistles sound like a bird.
For me, the name of the game is to become one of them--at least an American approximation. I think in terms of years.

Also I think it's often the case that people who have a hard time with something, but keep at it, surpass those for whom it comes easily. Sometimes great facility is a curse in the long-term. Struggle
lends depth. All of my life I've been surrounded by people who did what I wanted to do more easily and more quickly than I could. But sooner or later I usually did it better. The race is not always to the swift.

Also a lot of folks avoid jigs and reels and play airs and
hornpipes. Sooner or later one must attack one's weaknesses
and concentrate on what's harder. The places where one
has difficulty are good teachers.

[Kerry]

Kerry Posted: 27 Apr 2007 19:40
One other thing, if you haven't discovered Micho Russell yet, I would highly recommend his CD titled "Ireland's Whistling Ambassador." Micho is regarded as one the greats of all time, and he is also noted for using ornamentation sparingly. Every time I listen to him I realize that he never wasted a note, and never put one in where it wasn't necessary.

lemccullough Posted: 17 May 2007 02:31
I was fortunate to study and learn from a few of those master musicians (including Micho Russell, whose unique style is too often bandied about as a tattered battle flag for under-achievement).

Sorry to dust off a thread that is a little old, but I just came accross this and kind of feel the need to respond.

I certainly wasn't trying to "fly a flag for under-acheivement" nor was I suggesting that ornamentation is overused or totally expendable. I was just trying to point out a player that used ornamentation more conservatively. Although Micho played with less ornamentation, it does not make sounding like him any easier! (I also think that Micho could have ornamented a tune with the best of them...if he so desired.)

[Whitmores75087]

If that's the tunebook by McCullough or whatever his name is, then I'm not surprised you're having a hard time keeping up with his ornamentation. To be honest I don't like anything about his playing style. I think he goes way overboard on his ornamentation especially considering the book is supposed to aimed at beginners. It's like he's just showing off his skills but to me he sounds terrible.

I think you'd be much better off learning your tunes from books like these from Waltons:
http://waltons.ie/shop/product_info.php ... ts_id=7801

Or from whistlethis.com as Peter said.

I got a chuckle from this post. Must be the Irish in me.

[walrii]

I am still trying to memorize tune #1. I have played it for several weeks, hundreds of times, and I still can't play it from start to finish without a glance at the music.

I finally discovered the difference between memorizing a tune and learning a tune. When I memorize a tune, I see the notes on the page in my head and play those notes. Memorizing the page takes a long time and the memory is temporary; if I go for a while without playing that tune, I have trouble pulling up the picture in my brain.

About a year back, I heard Sting singing "Fields of Gold" on the radio. Something clicked in my head. I pulled over the car, got out my whistle and picked out the chorus from ear. I still don't know the notes, or even what key the tune is in but I can play it anytime without hardly thinking about it. I've started using sheet music to get the gist of how a tune goes, then listening to a CD and picking out the tune. If I run across a spot I can't figure out, I'll pull out the sheet music and figure it out then put the sheet music away. After I've learned tune this way, the "picture" in my brain isn't dots on a page; it is some non-visual combination of sound, finger postion and an image of where the tune is going (up, down, big intervals, little intervals). Those memories are much more permanent.

I've still got a long, long way to go. I haven't figured out any more of "Fields of Gold" other that the chorus. I don't play fast and ornaments are very much a work in progress. But I feel like I'm learning music now and not just a sequence of notes.

I can't tell you how to learn this other than to say you can do it. You can put down the sheet music and play that tune. Use whatever mental tricks you can dream up to make your brain believe that you can and you will. In my case it was as simple as pulling over the car and playing the tune before I had a chance to think about what I was doing.

[Whitmores75087]

Interesting points Walrii. I find I can often learn a tune quickly "by instinct" without thinking much about it, but that memory is prone to failure. It takes me much longer to get it into the "thinking" part of my brain where I "know" it and can play in public without fear of a trainwreck.