Susato thumbrests...

[Trip-]

For a long time the tumbrest was under my right thumb, lately I've pushed it up to my left thumb, because of the horrible pain.

I always thought that thumbrests were there to prevent the whistle from falling, so shouldn't it be above your thumb?

I meant my thumb is under the thumbrest - sorry

[Cynth]

mmm some interesting points folks...

I must say that leather string around the neck thing sounds like indeed the last word from the low whistle geekdom But who knows maybe I'll need to

@Cynth

Mate, thanks for the good and important tips. To make a few points on the topic, my right thumb began to sore basicly with the thumbrest (I never had the thumbrest off) - when I moved the thumbrest up the whistle to my left thumb, the right thumb clearly started to sore much less, but every now and then it still sores sometimes.
With the thumbrest on my left thumb, now this one started to sore, esspecially when playing alot of A and B rolls or playing B->C->D notes up and down quickly. I'm also managing to tap the C note using the right hand - which kinda brings tension, since it's not regularly I use that 'trick'.

I must admit, tension is allways there with unknown tunes, with unknown finger moves - unlike with the known ones which are allready in the subconscious mind kinda.

Either I'm too tenesed, either i've put the thumbrest on some wrong place for the thumb - at first any place for the thumb feels ok - but it's the 15 minutes of playing that starts revealing the pain.
Or maybe it's both tension and thumbrest combined into a horrible outcome.

One last thing, there are times I play for an hour - and I don't really feel any pain - but when I put down the whistle - I feel like all my fingers and arms are covered in gypsum (having a cast). So I try to squeeze my hands into fists to ease the feeling. I really enjoy my low whistle, but I'd hate it to hurt my hand joints.

Your last symptom sounds like what I had in my wrist and fore arm. No pain while playing but stiffness. I started to have some pain with it and then I had it all the time I wasn't playing. I finally got worried and stopped practicing. It took 6 months to go away. I am starting to practice again, trying to re-train myself to relax, do exercises, and take breaks. It is very difficult. If I have trouble again, I am going to have to find a professional to help me. And I won't wait until it gets bad this time. The least twinge and I have to get that problem taken care of somehow or I won't be able to practice! I hope you can get this problem solved too. These injuries get worse and worse until they become serious. That's why I'm lecturing you so intensely!

[WhistlinBob]

On my Susato low D they rest is right at hole #4 and I push up with my right thumb nail/knuckle very supportive and comfortable when playing fast I like it

[Trip-]

so cynth,
something must be wrong - I don't wanna lose my fingers ;/
I'll try to lose the tension as more as possible - but what about thumb position?

I hold the whistle with the side of my thumbs - my right thumb never reaching the 4th hole that's for sure. (unless 4th means from the middle downwards).

thanks

[fearfaoin]

I assume you've read the C&F article on Piper's Grip, which
addresses the "numb thumb" issue:

http://www.chiffandfipple.com/pipers.html

As you see in the pictures on that page, the player's right-hand
thumb is slightly lower than his right hand index finger (which
covers the fourth hole). I played clarinet, so I also use the side of
my thumb, which puts it a little higher on the whistle, probably just
above the index finger.

[Trip-]

You've assumed correctly... I've read this actually quite long time ago when I bought the whistle.

I must say I allways thought I was holding everything allright - but all this thing just got worse with time, that's why I'm starting to address it.

[Cynth]

so cynth,
something must be wrong - I don't wanna lose my fingers ;/
I'll try to lose the tension as more as possible - but what about thumb position?

I hold the whistle with the side of my thumbs - my right thumb never reaching the 4th hole that's for sure. (unless 4th means from the middle downwards).

thanks

Yes, something is wrong, that is for sure. That article fearfaoin posted looks helpful.

Unfortunately, I do not know what is wrong. I do not know enough to know what your problem is, even if I saw you. Everyone's hands are different, the holes on a whistle are not placed comfortably for everyone's hands. Your have "horrible" thumb pain and you also have hand stiffness. So you have taken the first step of acknowledgeing that something is wrong. Good for you!

If you keep having thumb pain and that stiffness, even with trying to relax, taking frequent breaks, warming up, doing the exercises (if thumb pain is not present) I would try to do one of two things.

1. If there is a doctor you could see who would send you to someone who specializes in hand injuries in musicians, that would be the greatest. That person will be able to spot what you are doing and have some help for you. Hand injury is a very big deal for many musicians and there are even websites about it. They are not too helpful in terms of specifics---because they cannot diagnose an injury without seeing it---but they might help you find someone in your area to help you. You can type in "musician hand injury" and you will get many hits.

2. If you cannot find a doctor who deals with injuries of this sort, I wonder if you could arrange a lesson from someone who plays a similar instrument. For example, maybe a recorder instructor would be able to spot tension and help you with it. I say recorder because there are no whistle teachers in my area and I guess the recorder would be closest to the whistle. I don't know if you would have any piping instructors in your area but it is very important to have a relaxed grip on the chanter. But any good wind instrument teacher might be able to help you with the tension. It is an issue for every instrument. I would call and explain the problem and ask if they would be willing to work with you for one or a few lessons on tension problems. The worst they can say is "No".

I am considering both these options if my problems come back. You just cannot continue to practice with hand pain.

[Trip-]

cynth! Thanks a big bunch
This is very helpful, although kinda stressing also ...

I will try for starters to ease tension and: "Start paying attention to tension!"

I've started to move the thumbrest again, put it back to my right thumb - the PVC whistle is just slippery and actually hard to play without it ;/

Will repost about developments or not...

Thanks alot alot alot,
Philip

[fearfaoin]

I've started to move the thumbrest again, put it back to my right thumb - the PVC whistle is just slippery and actually hard to play without it

You could try some Grip Tape where your thumb would go, instead of
the thumbrest. It should be sold in sports stores for tennis rackets and
hocky sticks.

[Chiffed]

Didn't 19thC fluters glue shark skin to their flutes to help with grip?

[Trip-]

now where was that shark I was going to skin earlier...

[Adrian]

Even on the low D susato, I just slide the thumbrest down to the end of the whistle.

--James

Me too! They are great to stop them from rolling. I find they generally interfere with playing the whistle and recorder, though on sax and clarinet I need them.

I must try this leather sling on a low whistle idea. Enquiring minds ...

[Trip-]

I recently tried to play without the thumbrest on the Susato - the whistle is just falling off my hands - the slippery PVC whistle is hard to grip.
And to add on that - everyone's saying don't squeeze the whistle - even then I'm having thumb pain.

I'm starting to get worried about getting a metal whistle without a thumbrest to be honest

I love holding the low whistle almost at 80-90 degrees with 'earth'.