Wombat wrote:Go to the source. The first and best Celtic fusion band was Moving Hearts and they still sound good today. For a pale modern imitation, try Kila.
I was wondering recently why I had never seen a reference to Moving Hearts on these pages.
Without a doubt,one of the greatest bands to come out of Ireland.
Not to dispute the Wombats theory of the Hearts being the first but I remember "Horslips" having a fusion approach to ITM some years before the Hearts.
The major difference being that ALL of the Hearts were consumate musicians, Horslips were less gifted in the actual playing of ITM.
Horslips were certainly first, Dubhlinn, but they don't strike me as being quite jazzy enough to fit the bill. More prog or folk rock fusion to my ears although it's been an awfully long time since I listened to them so maybe I'm being unfair.
We agree about Moving Hearts being the band that took this to where it could go. Isn't Eoghan O'Neill an awesome bass player? Check out The Storm but anyhting you can find of theirs will contain good moments.
Horslips were more folk-rock than Jazz fusion without a doubt.The Hearts were the biz though,I have all of their recordings and often play "The Storm"-very loud!
I would place O'Neills bass work alongside Pastorious in it's delicacy and soulfulness though he can sure as hell Rock when the mood takes him.
The band worked as a co-operative with even the roadies being on an equal share.It is no wonder they could not survive in the ruthless world of the Record industry.
Slan,
D.
And many a poor man that has roved,
Loved and thought himself beloved,
From a glad kindness cannot take his eyes.
The first thing that came to my mind was bustapipah's clips I found earlier on this forum.
I haven't heard many of the things suggested on this thread, but totally agree with bustapipuh's assesment that much of what's called jazz today, just isn't. don't get me started on the putting the word 'smooth' in front of it.
sandpiper wrote:The first thing that came to my mind was bustapipah's clips I found earlier on this forum.
I haven't heard many of the things suggested on this thread, but totally agree with bustapipuh's assesment that much of what's called jazz today, just isn't. don't get me started on the putting the word 'smooth' in front of it.
sand
Fusion music will always seem dubious to some—neither one thing nor the other to purists of both camps. But jazz has often been hospitable to creative fusion. I can't say anything about the—to me—obscure groups mentioned earlier on this thread except to say that the ones I recognised don't seem much like jazz to me. Flook have something of the spirit of jazz about them and I rather like that. But the one band you must hear if you are interested in jazz/celtic fusion is Moving Hearts. You get Donal Lunny and even the young Davy Spillane. This band swings like crazy and involves genuine improvisation as well as having some very Irish moments. If anything deserves to be called genuine fusion this does and I include such obviously successful exercises as Dizzy Gillespie's Afro/Cuban exploits and Jimmy Giuffre's folk/jazz fusion in making that assessment.
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RonKiley wrote:I have often wondered how to classify Phil's playing. I enjoy some of the things he plays but not all. And since he has given them away I have three of his CDs. Talbert St. Clair is another that I guess could be called new age. Same as Phil I enjoy some of his numbers but not all. I don't know of anything I would call Celtic Jazz but in my mind I have a very narrow definition of Jazz.
Ron
Does this mean the old Talbert flame is back on? I wasn't a member back then but I've read all the fun.
Not from me. I like Talbert. I just don't care for his style of music. Although there are some good tracks on his CD that I have. I think Talbert was mostly guilty by association, Chieftains, Davy, etc. Since I wasn't a party to any of those earlier fights it doesn't affect me.
RonKiley wrote:Not from me. I like Talbert. I just don't care for his style of music. Although there are some good tracks on his CD that I have. I think Talbert was mostly guilty by association, Chieftains, Davy, etc. Since I wasn't a party to any of those earlier fights it doesn't affect me.
Ron
I don't think Talbert was guilty by association. His acting as proxy for DS was odd of course, but what got people going was his inability to engage in a discussion and his impatience with anything that wasn't Talbert-adoration.
bustapipuh wrote:please tell me where to read the talbert st. claire discussion you're talking about. I've had some very interesting interactions with him myself
dubhlinn wrote:
I was wondering recently why I had never seen a reference to Moving Hearts on these pages.
Without a doubt,one of the greatest bands to come out of Ireland.
Not to dispute the Wombats theory of the Hearts being the first but I remember "Horslips" having a fusion approach to ITM some years before the Hearts.
The major difference being that ALL of the Hearts were consumate musicians, Horslips were less gifted in the actual playing of ITM.
Horslips were certainly first, Dubhlinn, but they don't strike me as being quite jazzy enough to fit the bill. More prog or folk rock fusion to my ears although it's been an awfully long time since I listened to them so maybe I'm being unfair.
We agree about Moving Hearts being the band that took this to where it could go. Isn't Eoghan O'Neill an awesome bass player? Check out The Storm but anyhting you can find of theirs will contain good moments.
Horslips were more folk-rock than Jazz fusion without a doubt.The Hearts were the biz though,I have all of their recordings and often play "The Storm"-very loud!
I would place O'Neills bass work alongside Pastorious in it's delicacy and soulfulness though he can sure as hell Rock when the mood takes him.
The band worked as a co-operative with even the roadies being on an equal share.It is no wonder they could not survive in the ruthless world of the Record industry.
Slan,
D.
" I would place O'Neills bass work alongside Pastorious in it's delicacy and soulfulness " ok as long as you don't mention musicality. jaco as a musician firstly, was in a class all his own, as a bass player he redefined the instrument. mr. o'neill had a looming precedent in the name of dave pegg.
Information is not knowledge.
Knowledge is not wisdom.
Wisdom is not truth.
Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love.
Love is not music. Music is the best.
- Frank Zappa
has anyone heard the celtic jazz collective? two giants from both worlds. paddy keenan on uilleann pipes and lewis nash on drums. no improvisation by the irish players but the jazz guys accompany the tunes beautifully. here it is: http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/reviews/08032.php p.s. come to think of it some of the stuff that martin hayes and dennis cahill play approaches this. but on the other hand on many occasions when itm or celtic players improvise the music is most decidedly diatonic which is kinda not jazz, if you know what i mean.
Information is not knowledge.
Knowledge is not wisdom.
Wisdom is not truth.
Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love.
Love is not music. Music is the best.
- Frank Zappa
oleorezinator wrote:..... but on the other hand on many occasions when itm or celtic players improvise the music is most decidedly diatonic which is kinda not jazz, if you know what i mean.
oleorezinator wrote:..... but on the other hand on many occasions when itm or celtic players improvise the music is most decidedly diatonic which is kinda not jazz, if you know what i mean.
which cut are you calling jazz? the guy sounds like a killer blues player.
Information is not knowledge.
Knowledge is not wisdom.
Wisdom is not truth.
Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love.
Love is not music. Music is the best.
- Frank Zappa
This band swings like crazy and involves genuine improvisation as well as having some very Irish moments. If anything deserves to be called genuine fusion this does and I include such obviously successful exercises as Dizzy Gillespie's Afro/Cuban exploits and Jimmy Giuffre's folk/jazz fusion in making that assessment.
