Chiff and Fipple Forums

Also, for the record:

My Bnat tweaked Generation uses the available tubing closest to the factory run Bb whistles. It's ever so slightly larger diameter but not a full telescoping size bigger.

Enat tweaked Generations use a tweaked key of F Generation mouthpiece on the same diameter tubing as the F Generation. A key of Eb Generation is already a wide-ish bore whistle. Using the same size tubing for an Enat makes the length to bore ratio too high and makes the upper register shrill and hard to play.

All my other tweaked Generations in keys Generation doesn't make (Alto A, original Tenor G, new tenor G, low F and low D) use tubing larger than the original Generation Bb tubing.

Jerry Freeman wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:10 pm I've been calling my whistles "tweaked Generations" for many years and that name seems to convey well enough what they are. Occasionally someone says, "I didn't know Generation makes a whistle in (whatever key) and I or someone else explains to them what I do to create the keys Generation doesn't make. Calling them "Generation style" whistles simply isn't accurate. These are tweaked Generations. Feadogs and Waltons and Clares, etc. are Generation style whistles. I tweak the whistles in many ways to get the results I strive for. Sometimes the tweak involves a new tonebody. I am especially vigilant to capture the true Generation voicing. These are tweaked Generations. (Mellow Dogs and Blackbirds, btw, are made with tweaked Feadog whistleheads. I don't call them "tweaked Feadogs" because the voicings bear no resemblance whatever to Feadogs. Calling them "tweaked Feadogs" would only confuse people. They have their own identities, entirely independent of the fact that the whistleheads started as Feadogs. They are Mellow Dogs and Blackbirds.)

Thank you very much for this detailed explanation. I have one of your low A whistles and had been wondering how the modified Generation mouthpiece confers their brand on a whistle with a body of your own design and manufacture. Assuming that I now correctly understand the link to be that it is voiced with a “Generation sound” — or “tweaked Generation sound” — since Generation doesn’t make A whistles, I remain confused about the basis for that comparison. It’s easy enough to demonstrate what, say, the D Generation sound is, but what determines the A Generation sound?

Because it's a Generation headjoint (that has been tweaked, which in this case includes a new tonebody, so I don't call it a "Generation," I call it a TWEAKED Generation). Which is also why it sounds like a Generation. It IS a Generation headjoint (that has been tweaked, etc. etc., carefully retaining the authentic Generation voicing).

To answer your question, "What would be the 'Generation sound' in a key Generation doesn't make?'" ...

In an A or G or low F or Bnat tweaked Generation, the reference is Bb Generations, especially outstanding examples of vintage Generations. It's the vintage Generations I want to emulate, not the current run Generations. Around 1980, Generation threw away its old injection molding tooling that was introduced in the early 1950s. The current tooling produces whistles that are not as sweet/pure voiced as the original Generations. Whistles can be voiced in different directions, dialing them in for what tone and handling characteristics you're aiming for. It's pretty straightforward.

I have to get my work done. Mortgage due today and I'm $140 short. Lovely visiting with you all.

Best wishes,
Jerry Freeman

That all sounds super Jerry, and I've just now sent payment for the new-model Tenor G with the bigger bore.

As soon as it arrives I'll be able to answer the OP's question.

Jerry Freeman wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 9:27 pm My Bnat tweaked Generation uses the available tubing closest to the factory run Bb whistles. It's ever so slightly larger diameter but not a full telescoping size bigger.

That sounds just like the tubing I used for my Tenor A Generation, which by the way has a superb tweaked Generation Bb top by yourself.

That Generation Bb top in a Generation Bb body plays like the very best vintage Generation Bb's I've had the opportunity to play.

In the Tenor A body I made it's the best-playing Tenor A that I've ever owned or tried.

BTW I took a short section of Generation Bb tubing and my home-made Tenor A body with the slightly-larger hobby-shop tubing to the local brass instrument repair person and she soldered it together. A bit funky-looking but it's sturdy and doesn't leak.

Just an update, the whistle I paid Jerry for on May 18 hasn't arrived, so I can't post my experience with it yet.

pancelticpiper wrote: ↑Sat Jul 16, 2022 4:34 pm Just an update, the whistle I paid Jerry for on May 18 hasn't arrived, so I can't post my experience with it yet.

Patience, Grasshopper.

I appreciate your patience, Richard (and others).

I'll be sending your low G whistle in the next few days. Gradually, I'm getting caught up on the orders that have come through PayPal. These got behind because I was ill for several weeks during February and March and then had surgery March 22. I'm 100% better now, thankfully, and getting a normal amount of work done again. Orders that come through eBay get processed faster, but I have to charge a few dollars more to cover eBay's fees. If you've ordered through eBay, those orders I am able to get out in just a few days time. Hopefully I'll have the PayPal orders caught up before much longer.

Best wishes,
Jerry

Richard, I put two whistles in the mail for you today, the wider bore tenor G you've been waiting for and another whistle I would like you to give a try.

My Freeman low (alto) G with the aluminum body was delivered a few days ago. What a wonderful whistle. I can't put it down.

Tyler DelGregg wrote: ↑Sat Jul 23, 2022 11:36 am My Freeman low (alto) G with the aluminum body was delivered a few days ago. What a wonderful whistle. I can't put it down.

I second what Tyler says. Top quality and very enjoyable to play.

The bigger-bore alloy Freeman Mezzo G was waiting when I came home from work today. Thanks Jerry!

My first impression is that I love it.

Playing it back-to-back with the narrower-bore brass Freeman Mezzo G is fascinating due to the whistles being more different than I had expected.

The narrower brass bodied one has much more of a Generation vibe to it (players of vintage Generations will probably know what I mean).

The wider alloy bodied one has more the feel of dedicated Mezzo G whistles, with a bigger sound throughout.

I'll play the new alloy one for a few days to get a better feel for it.

So far my only quibble is aesthetic: I'm not a fan of the grey plastic socket.

An alloy band over the PVC tube would make it look much more "professional" and gleaming and cool, yet probably add very little weight.

Hi, Richard.

Thanks for the kind words about the wider body low G tweaked Generation whistle.

Regarding the gray socket extension ...

Without giving away my methods and materials, I had to begin with a material that's affordable and easy to machine to the needed dimensions. An exhaustive search turned up that material, which only comes in gray. I tried painting it, but that was a lot of work and made the whistlehead smell like paint. Better to use as few materials as possible and make sure the materials I do use are odorless. Creating a metal covering just to make it look prettier would require as much machine work as making the headjoint itself. I don't think people would pay an extra $15 or $20 for that, and there isn't enough time in a workday to make that kind of embellishment.

I made a very un-slick video yesterday playing both my Freeman Generation mezzo/alto G whistles, and my c1980 first-model Susato mezzo/alto G

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_soKuEJTRaM&t=2s