'Bad' whistles.

littlejohngael · Post by **littlejohngael** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:58 am

I used to think that my Walton was bad. Then I got my "Chinese orphan child labor made" Meg (ahem) and thought that was a bit bad as well. Then I joined C&F and am convinced that they can both be turned back from the dark side.

I'll be inspecting them both quite closely with a cup of tea, a nail file/sandpaper and whatever other little items Dale recommends in the tweaking section of the site.

Little John

Patrick · Post by **Patrick** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 11:28 am

Cooperman. I have the tin whistle and the wooden whistle. The tin is just crappy. I gave it to my (then) 1 1/2 year old to use as a toy. He banged it up a bit and started insisting that I let him play with better whistles. Like my crappy Generation D. (Please note that I now have 2 Gens that I consider to be very nice whistles. One is a true gem and I hope it lasts a long, long time. The red top that I was given is lousy.)

The wooden whistle is kind of a wierd thing. It cost $15. It is made of maple and looks quite pretty. If they had someone who knew whistles making them and spending maybe 10 more minutes before glueing in the fipple, this would be a nice little whistle. As it is, there are some problems that make it one of the two I reach for least often. It is overly sensitive, but won't stay in the upper register when I want it to. Rather breathy, needs some finishing on the blade and inside the windway. All stuff that could have been fixed before the glue was applied. But I am not going to try to drill out the fipple at this stage. I seem to be the only one here who owns a Cooperman Maple whistle. They also come in Persimmon wood, for $30.

So, my vote for consistently bad whistles (NOBODY here has ever praised a Cooperman, as far as I know) is Cooperman Tin Whistle.

Tyghress · Post by **Tyghress** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 12:32 pm

That's funny...I was just about to say resoundingly 'Cooperman'. There is no redeeming feature other than its cost. It is simply and utterly a toy.

My next up would be Oak, just because of the chemical problem and numb/tingly lip that has been an issue for a while. There is a recent thread that says it may be cured, so that may take that off my 'won't have it' list.

Beyond that, talking trash about a product has caused enormous flame wars, and made people VERY unhappy in the past. Probably the best way to get this info is to solicit private mail, read between the lines on posts, and meet and try out as many whistles as you can and talk with their owners.

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:03 pm

Vinny · Post by **Vinny** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 2:18 pm

Hey Cran,

Yep, I've heard a lot of mixed reviews about many whistles but have never heard anything good about Coopermans (Coopermen?) Ditto exactly what Patrick said. The tin is barely playable and the wood makes a nice table decoration.

The best thing I'd heard about a Coopeman on this board is that it was a good window prop. Colonial Williamsburg here in Virginia sells them as Colonial Penny Whistles and over the years (through no fault of my own) I've collected several of them. Even tried tweaking one to no avail.

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 5:19 pm

Coopermans were my first non-plastic topped whistles. I would like to like them. They are cheap, traditional looking (like a Clarke, but less conical), not imported, and with the addition of a tassel could pass for a Ressikan flute.

I got two, well before I had ever been online or even seen Microsoft Windows. My only previous experience with whistles had been a very easy-playing Soodlums.

The one Cooperman wouldn't play at all. I tried in vain to tweak it. Just wound up bending it, and it still wouldn't play. The other would play, very quietly, and breathily.

The fipples on both stuck out about 1/4" beyond the front of the mouthpiece, and were held in place by being punched into on either side of the mouthpiece. Though they had the appearance of an unpainted Clarke, there seemed to be some kind of coating on the metal, and the seam was covered over (they are made of rolled tinplate).

All-in-all, one might describe the Cooperman whistles I had as caricatures of Clarke whistles. But I still want to like the Cooperman whistles. I don't think it'd take much more than a little revision of their factory methods to produce a fairly decent whistle. That said, Cooperman themselves are not even proud of their tinwhistles. You will not find them listed in the Cooperman catalogue, though they are supposedly introducing a higher end wooden one, that is different than their cheap wooden one.

In the interest of balance, the following are two quotes from old threads that are positive reviews.

Blarney Pilgrim wrote:You know if you wait long enough on this board someone will have an opposing view. I feel about Generations like you guys feel about Coopermans. My first whistle was a Cooperman. I still play it even though I have a number of others to choose from now
It's true it is a quiet whistle, and in many ways sounds more like a fife. But mine is spot on in tune on every note. They are made of soft metal and easily damaged. I suspect that is the problem with yours. If it is dinged or if the fipple is damaged, you'll get the kind of problems you describe. I suspect, that as with Generations there may be a quality control problem. (What do you want for $4?) Also, the way they are packaged they aren't well protected from damage. Since they're unpainted, conical and have wooden fipple plugs, they make a good reenactment whistle. I suggest you either try tweaking it (easy since they are soft) or buy another (if they are readily available). Or buy a Clarke. The sound is very similar. Steve

thesackrat wrote:Also the often overlooked _Cooperman_ is very quite. I realize that I "lucked out" when I got mine as it is _ded on_ in tune while most don't seem to be. They are all of $4-$5 and are often found at tourist shops. I keep mine on the stand next to the bed for that middle of the night urge-to-play-a-tune desire. It's that quiet.

CUL (see you later)

jonharl · Post by **jonharl** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:55 pm

The "poison" Oak brand whistle I think could be considered bad.

michael_coleman · Post by **michael_coleman** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 9:04 pm

I hate to say this because I have heard such great things, but I just received a Dixon low d duo set that I absolutely despise, I have been playiong on a Kerry Low D and an M&E polymer flute and it was a significant step down. I can't believe anyone would want the low D dixon, although I have an amazing soprano that isn't too bad. I really wanted this to work out as well, but I guess I am pulled back into reality. Just my two cents.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 9:40 pm

Cran, If you read a lot of the posts here and in other threads it soon becomes apparent that a great part of the enjoyment of these wonderful little instruments is "tweaking" and "improving" the bad ones. I have a few myself that I have nurtured into fine sounding whistles. If you look at Bloomfield's homepage you will see a delightful description of how he tweaked a Sindt and a Feadog into one great one. Kind of like Star Trek The Motion Picture with Voyager and that Alien Spacecraft. I can't wait to try that one myself. Alas, though, there are certain ones that simply turn out to be garbage no matter what you do. You just have to throw them in the sock drawer and get another one and hope for the best. Have fun!

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:02 pm

tyghress wrote:

Beyond that, talking trash about a product has caused enormous flame wars, and made people VERY unhappy in the past. Probably the best way to get this info is to solicit private mail, read between the lines on posts, and meet and try out as many whistles as you can and talk with their owners.

I pretty much agree with tyghress on this, especially for high-end whistles.

In theory I don't agree; I think that if whistle makers hang out on a whistle board they take a risk. If it comes off, that's spectacular for business. Free advertising will be plastered all over the board. If it doesn't come off, hard luck but you knew the gamble.

That's theory, but in practice I don't follow my own precepts. This is a community and we make friends with eachother. The whistlemakers are an integral part of this community of friends. I don't want to be seen bad mouthing someone I like, although I'll always give a frank but tactful appraisal in private, to a maker or a would be purchaser. Fortunately, I like many different kinds of whistle, and I almost always buy high-end whistles, so I usually have something nice to say about the whistles I buy. I think this is pretty much how Dale operates.

If you want to know which high end whistles to avoid, you'll have to do some of the work yourself. But that's obvious, we can't give you specific advice until you tell us exactly what kind of whistle you want.

John Allison · Post by **John Allison** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:56 am

My worst have got to be:

McHaffie D...I have yet to be able to get a scale out of it at any fipple setting
ANY low Susato...the lowest notes were just not attainable and the second octaves were incredibly loud and out of tune with any scale known to man
Hoover PVC low A...again, the lowest notes thingie (anybody wanna trade??)

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 6:46 am

Here's a Susato Low D:

http://www.flutesite.com/slievelowd.mp3

http://www.flutesite.com/samples/gravelly.mp3

Here is a comparison recording of the following whistles:

--Sweet original D in rosewood
--Sweet Killourhy D in rosewood
--M&E D whistle
--Susato D whistle (the regular D, not the VSB)

http://www.flutesite.com/samples/4expwhistle.mp3

I hope this helps.

--James

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'Bad' whistles.

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