ANNOUNCE: Serpent is gone

Azalin · Post by **Azalin** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 6:46 pm

Penguin_Whistler wrote:Now please just let this thread die.

No please, just a few more posts! Pretty please?

OutOfBreath · Post by **OutOfBreath** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 6:59 pm

emmline wrote: Do you really find Stacey's off-the-cuff riffs insulting? Tactless maybe, but generally entertaining...and given the way her personality comes across on the board, I wouldn't take any of it in a deep personal way.

That's the way I see it, maybe because I have a sense of humor similar to Stacy's. Some folks just seem to want to make a career of being offended, I guess. Personally I think it comes from deep-rooted insecurity but Dale could probably diagnose it more accurately than I

Anyway, you run into the easily offended all the time in real life so I guess an online forum, where folks don't have to worry about getting poked in the nose, isn't likely to be exempt. But I still have to laugh when I see person "x" flame the tarnation out of someone and then turn around within the same thread and whine when they are insulted in turn by person "y."

I can't say I'll miss Bill too much, some of his posts were interesting but he was just a little too opportunistic about turning every post into a sales pitch. However, I think it's a shame when one mildly annoying board member is hounded to the exit by a handful of members, some of whom I find far more annoying. Bill's activities may have been mercenary sales tactics or pleas for attention - but at least they were mostly about whistles! Maybe we'll get lucky and some of the more obsessed Bill haters will chase him to GC to hound him there, leaving us a little peace and quiet. Maybe then this board could get back to being the civilized and reasonably friendly community of three or four years ago.

As far as I remember, even Jessie's "tiff" days were not as volatile as some of the exchanges I've seen around here lately -- but maybe her worst time hit while I was off doing other things.

I know I've seen Loren go from an extraordinarily helpful and outgoing guy who wouldn't hurt a flea in the early days (he was opinionated, but politely so) to somewhat of a touchy grouch these days -- and I think probably with good reason. You can only put up with so much BS before lashing out. Even I have my limits

I've been a member since the "old days" when we were bouncing from place to place before Rich opened this home for us. It seems like the general flavor of the place is less sweet every time that I get a chance to come back for a while after being too busy with other things for a few weeks or a couple of months.

I used to hang out on UseNet back in the early to mid nineties before online forums became popular. I've seen large, popular news groups that were rendered useless for years at a time by just two or three vindictive, hypocritical, obsessed jerks with far too much time, far too little civility, and no regard at all for "the community." Sadly, I see the beginnings of the same dynamic here. I hope for all our sakes that Alan can get a handle on it and that he's as quick to run off the ordinary jerks as he is to run off the commercial jerks.

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 7:01 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:I know I've seen Loren go from an extraordinarily helpful and outgoing guy who wouldn't hurt a flea in the early days (he was opinionated, but politely so) to somewhat of a touchy grouch these days -- and I think probably with good reason. You can only put up with so much BS before lashing out. Even I have my limits

Just wanted to say that Loren had a grouch phase, but for the past year or so he's been non-contentious and helpful. I've decided to stop dragging up the old stuff in characterizing Loren.

emmline · Post by **emmline** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 7:22 pm

Brian Lee wrote: Would you buy anything from any salesperson who told you your clothing looked apalling? Your political views were skewed and wrong? You were a whiner - no wait, "moaning ingrate"??

Maybe. Depends how I take it. Stacey just comes across as colorful, mouthy, kooky...but not offensive. But then, everybody's got different sensibilities. Actually, I have an Alba Bb and I think it's just a really cool little beast.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 7:32 pm

Bloomfield wrote: Just wanted to say that Loren had a grouch phase, but for the past year or so he's been non-contentious and helpful. I've decided to stop dragging up the old stuff in characterizing Loren.

Thanks Bloo, I appreciate that - I believe we can consider the hatchet buried

Loren

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 7:36 pm

OutOfBreath wrote:I hope for all our sakes that Alan can get a handle on it and that he's as quick to run off the ordinary jerks as he is to run off the commercial jerks.

I didn't run Bill off, he left in a huff because I denied him what he wanted from me now that I have become a moderator at C&F.

My moderators hat was barely seated on my head let alone adjusted to a jaunty angle when I entered chat and Bill began to badger me about changing the policy at C&F to allow more commercial posting. I told him I don't set policy at C&F. He also wanted 'special dispensation' to make a post regarding a pet project of his but I told him it would be best to get the word out by other means. I was unwilling to set a precedent, especially for someone that has shown that he takes far more than a mile for every inch granted him.

The next night in chat Bill HOLLERED AT ME in his usually blustery and marginally insulting way to let him make that post. I tried to ignore him but he continued to LOUDLY chastise me for not making a concession.

At that point I decided to give Bill a very firm NO to his request and told him I would not give in to what I felt were his attempts to manipulate me.

Bill made an offensive reply containing an all too often used 'F' word and left chat and, I learned later, C&F.

This was NEVER a matter of us/them and I have nothing against commercial posts that abide by the rules Dale has set. Bill, however, seemed bent on making his own rules. I do not think that is appropriate for anyone to do here.

Enough of the boos vs cheers, eh? Let's let this thread come to a close.

Thanks,

Post by **Dale** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 7:44 pm

I haven't been able to read this whole thread, but wanted to put an end to some of the speculation about my role in serpent's abrupt departure.

Serp and I never had any personal issues. He always objected to the commercial use guidelines and we all know that he pushed hard at it. In the last couple of weeks, I approved virtually everything he asked to post--for a range of reasons, some of which have nothing to do with serp and everything to do with me. In addition I sincerely tried to advise him about the kind of things he could do improve his standing on the boards. I have no idea what precipitated his departure. Finally, there is no connection I know of between my moderation changes and serp's exit.

EDIT: Ok. Just read Alan's post. Thanks.

IDAwHOa · Post by **IDAwHOa** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 7:48 pm

"And that, my friends, is the REST of the story.

Good Day"

Paul Harvey ( I hope I got it at least close to correct )

OutOfBreath · Post by **OutOfBreath** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 7:58 pm

Alan wrote:
OutOfBreath wrote:I hope for all our sakes that Alan can get a handle on it and that he's as quick to run off the ordinary jerks as he is to run off the commercial jerks.
I didn't run Bill off, he left in a huff because I denied him what he wanted from me now that I have become a moderator at C&F.

I figured it was something like that, that's why I used a smiley. Although, there are some folks I wouldn't mind seeing run off. Let's see, here, making my list, checking it twice...

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 8:00 pm

you mean it wasn't because of me?

spittin_in_the_wind · Post by **spittin_in_the_wind** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 8:02 pm

http://music.walmart.com/m/000/45/98/69 ... 01.027.mp3

OutOfBreath · Post by **OutOfBreath** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 8:05 pm

Arggghhhh! Must. Kill. Purple. Dinosaur. Must Kill. Purple. Dinosaur. Must. Kill. Purple...

TelegramSam · Post by **TelegramSam** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 8:06 pm

hey, at least it wasn't a teletubby.

jluckett · Post by **jluckett** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:12 pm

I can't help but wonder if what occurred between Alan, the new moderator, and Serp was really everyone's business. Shouldn't private conversations be kept private?

serpent · Post by **serpent** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:14 pm

Alan wrote:
OutOfBreath wrote:I hope for all our sakes that Alan can get a handle on it and that he's as quick to run off the ordinary jerks as he is to run off the commercial jerks.
I didn't run Bill off, he left in a huff because I denied him what he wanted from me now that I have become a moderator at C&F.

I was not " in a huff", Alan. I was pissed off because you fail to make a distinction between a commercial post, and one in which someone is trying to do something good for the community. If you think I need more "hits" on my website, think again.

My moderators hat was barely seated on my head let alone adjusted to a jaunty angle when I entered chat and Bill began to badger me about changing the policy at C&F to allow more commercial posting.

I honest-to god wish I'd bothered to save a transcript. This did NOT happen, Alan, and you know it. I have never "badgered" anyone in my entire life, (much less "harrassed" anyone, Cranberry). I did NOT ask you to do any such thing. I asked you for one specific thing, only, that being to allow me to post the information on Grey Larsen's book, on which I make NO money. I think we must have been in two entirely different universes that night.

I told him I don't set policy at C&F. He also wanted 'special dispensation' to make a post regarding a pet project of his but I told him it would be best to get the word out by other means. I was unwilling to set a precedent, especially for someone that has shown that he takes far more than a mile for every inch granted him.

What you actually said, was something akin to "I know what _that_ means", implying that I had other motives. Thank you for being judge and jury, Alan.

The next night in chat Bill HOLLERED AT ME in his usually blustery and marginally insulting way to let him make that post. I tried to ignore him but he continued to LOUDLY chastise me for not making a concession.

It was not the next night in chat. There was no "next night in chat". It was the same night, and I did NOT "HOLLER AT" you. I put forth the information about Grey Larsen's book to everyone there, in large caps, and left. Get your timeline straight, please.

At that point I decided to give Bill a very firm NO to his request and told him I would not give in to what I felt were his attempts to manipulate me.

What you did was make a snide comment about knowing what it meant when I asked for permission to post the above message.

Bill made an offensive reply containing an all too often used 'F' word and left chat and, I learned later, C&F.

Yep, I sure did. I said "f**k this". I'm not sure how offensive it is, any more, but it's pithy, and, considering that I was actually trying to do something nice for C&F members and The Hunger Site, expressed my feelings about your treatment of the situation rather well, I thought.

This was NEVER a matter of us/them and I have nothing against commercial posts that abide by the rules Dale has set. Bill, however, seemed bent on making his own rules. I do not think that is appropriate for anyone to do here.

Funny, I've never had this sort of thing happen with Dale. But then, Dale has never made a judgemental comment about my motives.

Enough of the boos vs cheers, eh? Let's let this thread come to a close.

Thanks,

I agree.
Bill Whedon
Serpent Music

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ANNOUNCE: Serpent is gone

I could not let this go by...