Question about ornamentation on A

[paddler]

I was just watching (and admiring!) this video of Pat Tierney playing some reels and I noticed that when he plays what sounds like a roll on "A" what he appears to do in the video is repeatedly tap his R1 finger on the L3 tone hole. Check out the section around 47 seconds onwards and see if you can confirm what I think I am seeing and hearing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-pLklK- ... ature=fvwp

So my question is this.: how common is it for players to temporarily switch fingers like this, i.e., not always maintain the same mapping of fingers to tone holes? Are there other common/useful examples? Or is this a bad habit that should be avoided? Bad habit or not, I'd sure love to be able to play like Pat!

Oh, and could someone tell me the name of the first and second tunes?

Thanks!

Jon

[m31]

He's not shifting his B1 finger up to T3 from what I can tell. Interesting technique nonetheless.

[paddler]

He's not shifting his B1 finger up to T3 from what I can tell. Interesting technique nonetheless.

But with the L3 tone hole open (which it appears to be since his L3 finger is lifted) is it normal to articulate the A by striking the R1 tone hole? I just did some more experimenting with this and it does seem possible to have an audible effect, especially as part of a roll on both the first and second octave A. But Pat's articulations have more of a pop to them that I would have thought possible while leaving L3 open.

Thanks!

Jon

[MTGuru]

First, to answer your now-vanished question:

Are there any other explanations for the sound effect given L3 is lifted throughout?

He's using his tongue. Really.

In the figure |dA2A {c}AGFE| ... He's not playing a roll, but holding A2 instead of cutting, then tonguing instead of a tap. Followed by cutting into the next group of 4. He may be lightly tapping or breath-pushing the held A2, but that's basically it. Slow it down to 25% speed, and you'll hear it.

It's similar to a "Micho Russell" roll, where you keep the cut but tongue instead of tap: A{c}AA. This emulates the effect of closed fingering on the pipes, where the tap doesn't produce a lower note, but stops the sound completely.

As for moving B1 up to tap the T3 hole ... There was a discussion recently about a related technique:

viewtopic.php?p=952226#p952226

In general, the cost of moving your bottom hand out of position is too high, especially at reel/jig tempo. So "remapping" the finger assignments is not normally done, except as a trick.

[m31]

I agree with MT...

To play: |dAAA AGFE|

He plays: |d{tongue}A{G}A{G}A {c}AGFE|

The {G} is the mysterious B1 tap, a ghost G## of sorts.

It's an effective technique because there are four A notes in succession and cutting between the first two A's would detract from the emphasis of d -- at least more than a light tongue.

Also, to play BEEE

He plays: BE{push}E{D}E

Where {D} is a tap and {push} is a momentary increase in breath pressure.

A while back there was a thread about The Silver Spear which presented a similar problem. Now we have another option.

BTW, who says you can't learn from these forums?

[paddler]

Fascinating! Thanks for the explanation!

[whistle1000]

I learned the tune and I agree that he is tunging(sp.) the A. He seems to be tapping the F sharp hole solely to keep rhythm. Try it, It's like playing a drum. There does seem to be a little back pressure and a slight effect but the hammering with the R1 seem to help keep the rhythm with the tongue. I don't like tunging but with that tapping that A really pops. Now I have a new ornament and I quite like it.

[brewerpaul]

All that being said, I often do rolls on A with my R1 finger on the L3 hole. I can't get my R3 finger to tap cleanly enough. With a little practice, this is pretty easy and clean.

[Mick Down Under]

That spell check is: Tonguing. I had to look it up myself .

[MTGuru]

All that being said, I often do rolls on A with my R1 finger on the L3 hole. I can't get my R3 [sic, you mean L3] finger to tap cleanly enough.

Paul, try ...

1. Tapping with T3 and T4 together. The ring and pinkie fingers are hard to move independently. So don't fight it. Think about willing your T4 to do the tap, and let your T3 go along for the ride.

2. Taking your bottom hand completely off the whistle while rolling the A. Allowing the whistle barrel more freedom to move around a bit can aid execution. Watch the bell end of the barrel while you roll, and you can see the movement.

The nice thing is that once you train your T3 tapping finger to cooperate, you can dispense with the above tricks and tap/roll normally. And if you ever find your A rolls getting "stiff" again, retraining for a few minutes with 1. and 2. seems to bring things back in line.

[brewerpaul]

(quote)Paul, try ...

1. Tapping with T3 and T4 together. The ring and pinkie fingers are hard to move independently. So don't fight it. Think about willing your T4 to do the tap, and let your T3 go along for the ride.

Hmm... that sounds interesting. It will take some work, but preliminary tests show promise...