Practicing and playing a song perfectly

[Urshag]

I am just beginning to learn to play the tin whistle, (This is my first instrument as well) and I have a question.

I am finding that after about a week of practicing a song I can play it at normal speed. However, I find that I rarely play the whole song all the way thru without some kind of mistake.

How long do most people have to practice a song to be able to consistently be able to play it without screwing up at some part?

Also, after doing this for about a year, will the amount of time it takes a person to learn a new song get shorter, or will it always stay the same?

I guess I'm a little insecure about it, I'd like to know how people who have played for a long while do it.

I am truly amazed at how someone could do a full set in front of an audience night after night without making mistake after mistake.

Or maybe this is where "talent" plays a role.

[chrisoff]

Can't really speak about the whistle, because I'm terrible at playing the thing. But as an experienced musician on the guitar I can say that you never stop making mistakes, but your ability to play through the mistakes will improve.

Even the most revered musicians screw up the tune sometimes. They just rely on things, the audience not actually noticing and their ability to pick up the tune again as though nothing happened.

As for your other question, yes it should get a lot easier to learn songs the more experienced you become. The best way to improve is to play more (hence my terrible whistle playing!).

[caedmon]

General Musician Tip #1: Never let the crowd see that you've made a mistake. Just keep playing.

Sometimes, those "mistakes" can lead to new learning.

[Clinton]

If you make a mistake, do it again and call it Jazz...

The most important thing is to get comfortable enough that you can play through your mistakes. One of the things we do when we practice is stop when we make a mistake, and try to fix it. That is good when we are first learning a tune, or later on, when we are playing through looking for rough spots to fix. But, part of the practice should be to just play from beginning to end, mistakes and all, trying above all to keep the tempo. Metronomes can be very helpful as a practice companion to keep the pulse going.

Clinton

[projektio28]

My first instrument was the piano, and still is primarily, and one thing I noticed was at a certain point I would stop if I made an error, and go back and play from the beginning again. I was a bit of a perfectionist, extremely self-critical. But luckily I had an excellent and understanding piano instructor who told me there was nothing wrong with making a mistake so long as you could continue to play through to the end as though nothing had happened.

She helped increase my confidence and also helped to mellow my criticism of my playing ability, so that when I got in front of a large audience and made an error, it was no big deal.

As for your question about how long it takes to learn a new song, this is something that will affect each person differently. I've been playing music for decades, but still feel like I am a beginner depending upon which instrument I am playing, or what new piece of music is sitting in front of me. I will agree though that the longer you play music, the better you get at reading it, interpreting it and creating your own style.

You will find purists on this board who believe that tunes should only be played one way, and others like me who think a little improvisation or arranging has its merits too. I don't think that either method is bad, but I would suggest you first pick a favorite whistle player and copy their style before developing your own. This will help build your sense of intonation, how your whistle functions and will help with your confidence.

Good luck, and always make sure to have fun!

Matt

[MarkP]

trust your conviction and potential, if you develop a love for it, practice and listen to lots of good playing, you'll get more accurate and quicker at learning (ideally by ear). As you learn more tunes you learn the vocabulary of ITM and whistle technique, which gives you the tools to learn more tunes quicker (like learning a language). There are lots of phrases and turns that are common to many tunes, or closely related, and you'll start to recognise variations on phrases rather than individual notes, which means you're learning fewer memory 'chunks' in each new tune and quicker results.

I guess there are two schools of thought on learning tunes: (a) learn a small number of tunes and learn them well (I won't say learn them 'perfectly' because, as others said, each tune can have variations depending who's playing and where); (b) learn a lot of tunes and develop your vocabulary so you can then improve the playing and variation of tunes you know (some might say you risk 'bad habits'). I guess traditionally you would start young (very young) and drip feed one tune after another after another, each learned cut for cut from your teacher, and ingrain them over years and years... but we late starters don't have the luxury

There's more pressure on today's players to know a lot of tunes compared to the days of localised repertoires. But whatever suits you, maybe take turns on both approaches - learn a tune well and then apply what you've learned to a bunch of similar style tunes without worrying too much about remembering them, then pick one and learn it well, etc...

Sure, a year will make a big difference, and two or three years a lot more... I feel like I'm only now getting to a point where I can listen to a tune at playing speed and start getting it down right without the aid of slow-down or dots. So I'm no expert, someone with more experience might have better advice...

[Urshag]

I appreciate all the help and suggestions. So let me ask, when you were starting out, how long did it take you to learn a tune to the point where you felt you could perform it in front of others without making yourself look like a fool?

[MarkP]

I have a little challenge now where I make myself learn a new tune in the hour before I go to the pub and then lead it off early in the evening (sometimes I look like a fool doing it!). When starting learning...maybe a week...not looking like a fool...maybe longer?

[projektio28]

I appreciate all the help and suggestions. So let me ask, when you were starting out, how long did it take you to learn a tune to the point where you felt you could perform it in front of others without making yourself look like a fool?

I suppose one way I approach this same question is if I can play all the way through a song and make less than two mistakes, that satisfies my "can I play it in front of other people" issue.

If you find yourself constantly making errors in one particular place, just focus on that one measure/passage until you clean up the errors. A lot of errors can be fixed by slowing down the tune until you've cleaned up the fingering mistakes. After that it is much easier to bring the tune back up to tempo.

By the way, I find one way to feel more confident with playing is to play with friends or other people in general. Having more musicians and more instruments can make you feel like all of the attention is not just focused on yourself. That can alleviate a lot of pressure!

Matt

[mutepointe]

I never got the memo that we were supposed to quit feeling like a fool. Bummer. My feeling foolish quotient is in direct proportion to how receptive I believe the audience is to my performance. I play a few instruments and I have to say, some audiences take a bit of time to get over pennywhistles looking like a toy. Pull out a 12-string guitar or a flute and folks think you mean business. I have a crystal flute that I play left-handed and even silver flute players have stopped to see what was up with that, thinking it was some bizarre specialty instrument. My brothers (we're all grown) still howl with laughter when I pull out a new instrument. One brother totally lost it on the concertina. My friends and strangers are more respectful. And just like with buying houses, it's all about location, location, location. One feels less foolish in a receptive, comfortable environment.

[Urshag]

I appreciate the sentiment, but I was referring to looking like a fool due to playing badly, making mistakes.

I love Irish music so I would have no problem playing a tin whistle in front of people, as long as I don't play sour notes, lose my place, etc.

[mutepointe]

Oh, well, then foolishness is directly proportional to how much they paid to listen. If they didn't pay anything, I don't feel foolish at all.

[rrgane]

I am just beginning to learn to play the tin whistle...

...I find that I rarely play the whole song all the way thru without some kind of mistake.

How long do most people have to practice a song to be able to consistently be able to play it without screwing up at some part?

Also, after doing this for about a year, will the amount of time it takes a person to learn a new song get shorter, or will it always stay the same?

i like you just started playing penny whistle, although i have been a professional/semi-professional musician all my adult life. in the beginning and continuing on until you have a fine mastery it is rare to be able to make it through a song and feel there is nothing about it you could have played better, however the issues become more and more subtle; instead of a blatant wrong note, it becomes a choice of vibrato, or when you took a breath.

i find playing along with a CD or MP3 of the tune to be a big help as it doesn't allow you the time to hesitate after a mistake; you have to as others mentioned 'play through it', also you learn the feel of the song right along with the notes.

it does get easier as time goes by, there will come a time when you suddenly realize music is a language, and what you have been learning so far is just the nouns, verbs and adjectives; and the real fun begins when you can start to speak fluently with your own thoughts.

folk music should be personal, it is about expressing yourself and having fun; other forms and styles of music are much more restrictive and mastery of the instrument becomes less art and more science.

[Urshag]

Thanks so much for all the advice and information! You've all made me feel less like a blundering clod, and less self conscious.

I guess in this day and age where most people are more likely to see or hear a prerecorded song rather than a live performance, we music novices get the impression that professionals never make mistakes so we feel stupid or untalented when we start out.

I have to wonder if the whole idea of people playing instruments together in a group or band was not just to create a wonderful sound or harmony, but to help cover each others mistakes.

[projektio28]

I have to wonder if the whole idea of people playing instruments together in a group or band was not just to create a wonderful sound or harmony, but to help cover each others mistakes.

Luckily, I think my band serves as both!

Matt