LOW F :: The magical behaviour of the high d

[Trip-]

Hi everyone,
I've recently acquired the Alba low F.
I also have the Dixon low F.

on both of these whistles, the high b note is most likely to sound like 3rd f --- completely out of tune.
I'm trying to practice cross fingering to fix this prob. Anyone else having this problem?
I gather that if I have these 2 completely different whistles, it might be a common Low F issue?

I have to say that if I tune the whistles down, make them longer, the issue almost doesn't happen.

Thanks,
Philip

[Carey]

Hi Philip,

I don't have a low F, nor have I ever played one, so this idea is pure extrapolation, but since you said if you tune them down it changes things...

If the tuning slides are in the same relative position it could be that there is a perturbation in the bore caused by the tuning slides that affects the B? If the slide is mid-way between the window and the B .. er first open hole there's more evidence that this is what's going on. Check inside those whistles...do you think there could be a wide spot or constriction at the tuning slide? If it's a constriction I don't know what you could do. If it's a wide spot, is there some way you could fill in the wide spot with a shim of some sort?

I'm just shooting in the dark, but I have seen whistles and flutes where perturbations in the bore will impact a note or two. I've seen it more in the second octave however. It could be something completely different.

Carey

[Trip-]

Thanks Carey, I'm not sure it's a tuning slide prob, since both whistles have different 'style' slides...
I will have to check with the makers.

I wanted someone with a low F to throw in their experiences though.

PS: I had to edit the original post, of course I meant the high d and not b, just because I've compred the holes position to a D whistle. silly me...

[emtor]

PS: I had to edit the original post, of course I meant the high d and not b, just because I've compred the holes position to a D whistle. silly me...

I'm a little confused . . . do you mean the note that would be a high b on a D-whistle?
And . . . do you think you could make a simple drawing of the two tuning systems? Even if they look a bit different they could maybe have the same effect.

[Trip-]

Yes that's exactly right - I just mark hole positions by notes on the D scale.

I suppose the systems are not that different, just that the Dixon is very tight moving, needs oiling to make it smooth - the Alba on the other hand is much more loose but stays steady where needed.

[sackbut]

I have two low F whistles, both home-made, non-tunable.
Neither of them have the problem you mention; the high d sounds alright to me.
(Just to triple-check, that is with one finger covering the top hole, second octave.)
One whistle is 18mm bore; the other 23mm. The note concerned, unsurprisingly, sounds cleaner & purer on the narrow-bore instrument. (I made the 23mm one to get more power & resonance in the lower register; the low notes on the 18mm sound ok, but you can't hear them if I'm playing together with anyone else).

So your problem isn't generic to all low F whistles.

[jim stone]

There is no problem on the Chieftain non-tunable F.
No problem on F flute, either. I very much doubt that
the problem is the whistle's key. I would definitely
contact the makers.

[narrowdog]

No problem with my Kerrypro 'F' either
I just had a play through 'Give Me Your Hand'
and although the d (b on a D whistle) does need quite a bit more push than the a# & c
to bring it into tune, I can't make it sound like anything else,
well maybe a scalded cat but I'm working on that
I'd second what Jim said and get in touch with the maker I'm sure they'll help.

BTW welcome back emtor we thought we'd lost you.

[emtor]

Nooo-noooo narrowdog, I wasn't lost, but everything seemed to happen at the same time back then. I lost my regular day-job in the same time as my web-host sendt the bill for the web-site to the wrong address, so I never got it. Before I knew it they closed the site down. I've been busy trying to get a new job since then, and thought I'd wait a bit before picking up the whistle tweaking again.

[narrowdog]

Nooo-noooo narrowdog, I wasn't lost, but everything seemed to happen at the same time back then. I lost my regular day-job in the same time as my web-host sendt the bill for the web-site to the wrong address, so I never got it. Before I knew it they closed the site down. I've been busy trying to get a new job since then, and thought I'd wait a bit before picking up the whistle tweaking again.

I know were off topic but its good to have you back

[emtor]

Thank you narrowdog,-this is off topic too, but I just need to say it:
All of you here who ordered tweaked whistles has been an incredible bunch.
Not a single one of you ever failed to pay even if you all got the whistles up front.
This community is like a world apart from the rest of the world, a world where theft and deceit is all to common.
But here, not one has ever tried to benefit from getting whistles first and then pay later.
I wish so much to meet all of you face to face, but I'm afraid that's impossible, although I did meet one customer from the Chiff and Fipple Community once.

So, thank you all . . . I'm truly overwhelmed.

(I better be starting tweaking whistles again)

[Carey]

Yes that's exactly right - I just mark hole positions by notes on the D scale.

I suppose the systems are not that different, just that the Dixon is very tight moving, needs oiling to make it smooth - the Alba on the other hand is much more loose but stays steady where needed.

That's the same note (B on a D whistle) that I've seen the tuning slide cause a shift in the tuning. Now I'm curious...

1) Does this happen ONLY in the upper octave?

2) Does the tuning slide fall 1/2 of the distance from the 2nd hole from the top (the one you open to play the B/D)?

3) Is the high B/D note sharp?

If yes to the above I'm sticking to my perturbation in the bore story.

[Daniel_Bingamon]

It's probably a combination of the bore diameter and the key being used.

[Trip-]

Carey,

1) yes, only the upper octave
2) if you mean "tuning slide" being the end of the top part of the whislte (2 parts whistle), then no, it doesn't fall 1/2 between window and d.
3) the note isn't just sharp, the note sounds shifted... to e or f.

Daniel,

I'm sure the makers are fine whistle makers, that probably prepare the whistle to play all notes as they should sound. I shall dig in more to see how to eliminate this prob - it's a real nag.

[Carey]

It will be interesting to hear what it turns out to be Philip. Keep us posted.