Suggestion to whistlemakers re: this forum.

Post by **Dale** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 11:26 am

It's only a suggestion.

When a thread develops concerning your product, I would recommend you exercise great caution about participating.

Even "thanks for the kind words" posts, innocent and well-intentioned, I think are ill-advised. I can elaborate on this if you wish, but I just think that as a general guideline it is best for makers to stay out of threads regarding their own products.

If, on the other hand, someone says something which is incorrect or something negative and you feel a strong need to reply, I would suggest that you email the person posting and invite them to post something on the forum regarding any new information you provide.

Dale

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 11:58 am

Not that Dale needs any support . . .

But I'll second his comments. I think it could get very awkward either way. If someone says nice things about your instruments, thank him or her via PM or email. On the other hand, if someone makes disparaging comments or a criticism, I think you should also contact him or her via some kind of private message to resolve the issue.

If a question arises that is directed to the maker, then by all means you should respond, in my opinion.

Stuart

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 4:59 pm

Stuart, you're helping confusing matters, while if Dale usually boasts to do so (I suspect on purely rhetorical grounds) it didn't seem to be the case here on this thread.
I can understand your distinguo but the border may be thin;
I.e. :
1) I just received a brand-new Garglophone anf it sucks (etc.)
2) To Gargle, esq. : confirrming I received your new whistle, methinks it sucks (etc.)

My examples have a clear (as mud, but it covers the ground) cut boundary, but what about real-life posts ?

Tyghress · Post by **Tyghress** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 5:19 pm

Might I add that the Sage Advice offered above should extend to shops an e-vendors also.

I was wondering if questions about specific items can safely be addressed publicly. Such as: "Do Acme whistles have a widget for a reason?", or "What difference is there in the design of the X1 and X2?"

Post by **Dale** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 5:39 pm

On 2002-12-22 18:19, tyghress wrote:
Might I add that the Sage Advice offered above should extend to shops an e-vendors also.

I agree.

Post by **Dale** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 5:39 pm

On 2002-12-22 17:59, Zubivka wrote:
Stuart, you're helping confusing matters, while if Dale usually boasts to do so (I suspect on purely rhetorical grounds) it didn't seem to be the case here on this thread.
I can understand your distinguo but the border may be thin;
I.e. :
1) I just received a brand-new Garglophone anf it sucks (etc.)
2) To Gargle, esq. : confirrming I received your new whistle, methinks it sucks (etc.)

My examples have a clear (as mud, but it covers the ground) cut boundary, but what about real-life posts ?

I'm sorry. I'm just not following you.

Dale

Whitmores75087 · Post by **Whitmores75087** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 5:40 pm

Zubivka,
I enjoy reading your posts because they are always SO interesing and different. I read them and read them and read them again. I know there is meaning to them, so I read them again. L'anglais, c'est une seconde langue pour toi, non?

Tom.

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 5:49 pm

I was wondering if questions about specific items can safely be addressed publicly. Such as: "Do Acme whistles have a widget for a reason?", or "What difference is there in the design of the X1 and X2?"

Tygress, my thoughts exactly.
Not long ago Michael Burke commented on Perturbed Bores.
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... =1&start=0
It was a wealth of information and not taken (at least to me) as a sales pitch.

Dale, are you saying makers should refrain from (technical) comments like this??

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 6:48 pm

I think the point is not to set up
hard and fast rules, but to strongly
encourage whistlesmiths and venders
to err on the side of not posting
in such threads, and to exercise
caution and good judgement when they do.
No substitute for good judgement here,
I think.

If I made whistles I might consider
posting to answer a particular technical
question about my product (e.g.
do Zeitgeist Whistles have delrin
fipples? Ans: Yes)...sometimes.

After all, whistlesmiths live on
Mt. Olympus, don't they? The Greek
gods found that good for business.

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 7:51 pm

Thank goodness I am not the only one who doesn't understand what Zubivka says.

I was ashamed to admit it.

Stuart

Sandy Jasper · Post by **Sandy Jasper** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 7:56 pm

I try my best not to over stay my welcome in any thread and not to push my product. I also feel that it is important for me to retain my freedom of speech and be able to respond to questions and comments as I see fit. I will do so with caution and respect and hope that other whistle makers, vendors and whistle players do the same.

If this is to be a whistle community, then all members of that community should feel welcome.

Sandy Jasper

Post by **Dale** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 8:47 pm

Re: Sandy's post.

Sandy,

Please re-read my original post and then please let me know how you get from there to restricting free speech or making people feel unwelcome.

Not to start a thing here, or anything.

Dale

mvhplank · Post by **mvhplank** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 9:40 pm

Sandy,

I think you can relax and feel welcome. I get the sense that Dale may want to avoid the use of the forum as an advertising medium, and I think I agree.

For example, I don't like going to "product" parties (to avoid using a brand name) where you're bribed with food to attend and coerced into buying plastic storage containers or kitchen gadgets. The forum is my no-pressure party, in that sense.

On the other hand, I think the whistle-makers can offer insight even if they focus their posts on whistles in general.

M

Sandy Jasper · Post by **Sandy Jasper** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 10:25 pm

Dale

Thanks for taking the time to read my post. I do not wish to get into anything with you either. I would just like to be able to respond naturally to a post without looking over my shoulder. I believe it to be of value to the community to respond to questions directed at me be they about whistling in general or my own whistles. Chances are that if one person is asking, many too have wondered. I also think it can be rude not to respond to a direct question. In the interest of being polite, there are times too when it feel right to say a simple thanks, just once when someone has recognized your hard work. I do however think it pushing the envelope to constantly post in an effort to keep a thread about your product at the top of the board.

Sandy

serpent · Post by **serpent** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 10:44 pm

I'm not certain I fully understand what you're saying, Dale, and I'm also wondering if something in my latest run of nonsense has somehow triggered some negative reaction in your mind. Does this mean that I'm encouraged to not give things away in my silly little games? Should I not be running the charity raffle here? And quite important to me, should I avoid being polite and thanking people (publicly) who have complimented my product (publicly)? These people have put their own credibility on the line for me, and of course, I thank them in private email, but I think it's also important to do so in the same venue in which they presented their opinions. Hey, if I thank them in private, only, how does that make me look? People can (and will) say, "Joe said such nice things about his work! I wonder why he's ignoring it!"

This is rather perplexing to me. Maybe I've got it all wrong, and I most sincerely hope that I do. But my analysis is that, in the way in which you said your piece, you are relegating makers to the role of "second class citizens" here on C&F.

Were we to blatantly advertise, it would be quite understandable that you would take issue with our words, but mere participation in a thread involving our products? Responding to questions about same? I fail to see how those could be deemed negative.

Some time ago, I tried to put forward the idea of a small area for the makers, where we could talk technical, answer questions, maybe get into specifics about our work with interested people who might come over and visit from the PS board. That idea was met with silence from you, yet now you address some of the very things that such an area might be used for. I want to remain constructive about this, although I must admit that it's disturbed me considerably, because, in large part, of the fact that I'm pretty much the only maker who's been in evidence here "in the open", for some time.

As a maker, my primary focus is, necessarily, on my products. Yet I am prevented by the nature of the board, and now by this latest turn of events, from actually participating? I'm sorry, but if the latest run of OT and utterly nonsensical, huge threads, are what C&F's PS Whistle Board is all about, to the exclusion of people who actually make whistles and are interested enough in what they do to try to glean what people who play them think and want, then I'm forced to wonder what I'm doing here!

Perplexed? Got it in one.
Bill Whedon