Cross fingering combinations.

[shadowformz]

G'Day all,
I would dearly love it if some of you experienced players out there could enlighten me as to the most commonly used cross fingering combinations other then 0XX 000 for C natural, and also what are some fingering positions that might work for a 3rd octave D

[Belgian_Waffle]

On this site : http://www.fullbodyburn.com/ you can find charts with all the fingersettings for all the different keys. Some might work better then others on certain whistles so it's still a bit of trail and error...

[MTGuru]

Waffle, you beat me to it. The D whistle chart is a start:
http://www.fullbodyburn.com/html/flutes ... _main.html

Also see the "Additional Fingerings" and "Half Octave" links.

For the high d, see these threads:
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=57204
http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=55030

There's really no secret to cross-fingering. For a given note fingering, there may be a combination of closing or half-closing holes below the note that will flatten it a half-step. Every whistle may be different, so the best way to find out on your whistle is to experiment. Try everything! And make your own chart.

Some fingerings to try, that sometimes work, that are not on the chart:

2nd octave F-nat: xxxoxx
2nd octave F-nat: xxxxox
2nd octave Ab: xxoxox

[pancelticpiper]

The only cross-fingering that traditional players usually do is the C natural in the low register:
oxx ooo (or) oxx oox (or) oxx xox
For F naturals traditional players partially open the hole which gives a nice gliding effect.
There are basically two approaches to "half-holing" (a misnomer because you're opening the hole less than halfway most of the time).
One, the one I most often have seen used by traditional players, stems from having the fingers fairly flat. The flat finger is rotated a tad to create an opening towards the open end of the whistle.
The other stems from having arched fingers and using the pad at the finger's end for sealing the hole. In this method the finger is placed so an opening is created towards the open end of the whistle.
On the Irish flute, because of the way most people have their upper hand positioned, it's this second method that's used on the upper hand, even when the same player uses the first method for the lower hand.
Anyhow if you practice it you can get pretty good at nailing in-tune E flats, F naturals, G sharps, and B flats.
Though there's a Baroque flute fingering for high C natural:
oxo xxx
most of the traditional players I've heard half-hole that note (but of course use the cross-fingering for low C natural).
For high D, the flute fingering is:
oxx ooo
but on most whistles that's not in tune and simply playing
xxx xxx
is often better.
Wow I went to that "full body" chart- that thing's hard to read for me, partly because it's upside down, partly because of the confusing way that alternate fingerings are shown. And what's with the squares vs the circles? It's like shape-note singing or something.

[peeplj]

I used to use cross-fingerings quite a bit; however, I now use half-holing instead:

It works on every whistle.

You have better control of the pitch of the note produced.

Once you get used to doing it, it actually seems faster.

Just my $.02; your mileage may vary.

--James

[shadowformz]

Well thanks for your help everyone, the links are real cool and i'm gunna try touching up on my half holeing as well, its sure given me something to experiment with. Cheers

[FJohnSharp]

I used to use cross-fingerings quite a bit; however, I now use half-holing instead:

It works on every whistle.

You have better control of the pitch of the note produced.

Once you get used to doing it, it actually seems faster.

Just my $.02; your mileage may vary.

--James

So you half hole all your Cnats? Are you able to do this at reel speed going from Cnats to other notes and back again?

[Bothrops]

I find easier to use always OXXOOO for the C-natural.
It's in tune in a lot of whistles and, if not, you can use OXXXOX in the waltzes and slow airs and the OXXOOO (even if it's out of tune) in jigs and reels.
I don't think it'd matter if it's a bit out of tune when you're playing a fast tune. We shouldn't be so meticulous.
I don't believe you can half-hole the C-natural in a fast jig or reel without messing up.

[peeplj]

I used to use cross-fingerings quite a bit; however, I now use half-holing instead:

It works on every whistle.

You have better control of the pitch of the note produced.

Once you get used to doing it, it actually seems faster.

Just my $.02; your mileage may vary.

--James

So you half hole all your Cnats? Are you able to do this at reel speed going from Cnats to other notes and back again?

A fair question.



Depends on the tune; it's a work in progress.

I can do it on some tunes (but not all) at session speed.

I still use a cross-fingered C-natural quite a bit on fast tunes, or on B-C-D triplets. (I've been complimented on those triplets, so I figure if I actually have a strength I should show it off from time to time.)

I used to cross-finger C-sharp quite a bit--I've completely broken myself of that, and now half-hole it on whistle 100% of the time. Didto for A-sharp (which is a note that I actually rarely use on whistle, only one or two tunes.)

--James

[Mitch]

These days, I almost exclusively use OXX OXX for the c-nat when descending and if the c-nat is accented in the tune. This gives me a lot of control with rolls and slides around c-nat. For ascending or tripet figures I tend to use OXX OOO - it's crisp, but needs a subtle breath to keep all in-tune. For B-C-B figures, I generally half-hole, but top-hand figures such as B-C-B-G get OXX OOO for clarity.

A lot of tunes seem to like having the c-nat a bit flat - specially the minor modes of G - that could be a function of even-tempered whistles, or just the nature of the tunes...

But then, I'm still a total nOOb. Things would go a lot quicker if I could half-hole crisply. (and everything else crisply would be nice )

I think I'll always have a soft-spot for the OXX OXX c-nat - rolls using the index fingers are cool (bottom index is cut, top index is strike), and they look quirky when you do them. You can slide up to c-nat using the top index - and by "threatening" the open holes (not closing for the full-roll), you can get a really neat, warbly vibrato.

[FJohnSharp]

I used to cross-finger C-sharp quite a bit--
--James

You meant a G# right? G# seems easier to me though I don't know why. I half hole the G# for St Anne's reel and a couple of others but I don't think they require me to then fully cover the G hole after playiing the G#.

[peeplj]

Yeah, that was a typo.

I meant G-sharp.

Sorry about that.

--James

[Tia]

deffinitly thought that said contamination...too much science sigh

but was wondering that too thanks for actually asking it...and for the answers