How to stress downbeat on a jig when 2nd note is higher?

[bigpow5]

I'm learning part B of Jerry's Beaver Hat jig. The sequence of notes in the upper octave is : dfa afd gbg faf . On the 'bgb' and the 'faf', I end up just playing a long 'b' and a long 'f' and this sounds good. If I try to play all the notes , it loses its jiggy-ness since the second note is louder and seemingly automatically stressed more than the first.

Is there anything a whistle player can do?

[StevieJ]

Is there anything a whistle player can do?

Yes - you can use your tongue to control the length of the b - shorten it, in other words. This will minimize its piercing quality and preserve the swing of the jig.

This will work best in conjunction with the "STT" tonguing pattern described in <a href="http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/brosteve/">Bro Steve's pages</a>.

But playing a long g, especially with a nice decoration such as a long roll, is absolutely fine too. Info. on how to do rolls also chez Bro Steve.

You can also try playing the b in the lower octave (gBg) and lots of other permutations.

[TheSpoonMan]

Is there anything a whistle player can do?

Yes - you can use your tongue to control the length of the b - shorten it, in other words. This will minimize its piercing quality and preserve the swing of the jig.

This will work best in conjunction with the "STT" tonguing pattern described in <a href="http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/brosteve/">Bro Steve's pages</a>.

But playing a long g, especially with a nice decoration such as a long roll, is absolutely fine too. Info. on how to do rolls also chez Bro Steve.

You can also try playing the b in the lower octave (gBg) and lots of other permutations.

I don't know the tune, but as far as they fit it, other possibilities based on bgb: g2b, g2g, (3gabg, gbb, abb, b3, ~b3, b2b.... all kinds of stuff.

Also I don't think it's necessarily wrong for the second note in a jig foot to sound more stressed- if it isn't actually, rhythmically speaking. Could even be pretty cool sounding. Think of a person speaking Welsh

[TonyHiggins]

By and large, the downbeat is played a shade longer than the other two (or 3 of a reel) notes. Usually emphasis is placed by timing rather than loudness so you're already doing the right thing. And, I'd play the 2nd and 3rd notes stacatto. Going from a low to a really high note without tonguing often causes a squawk in between. (gbg and faf are not that big a jump)
Tony

[Rod Sprague]

There is the trick of coming in on the emphasized note a bit sharp and/or a bit ahead of the beat, but not to the point it sounds wrong, obviously. Many of us whites can have trouble with that, as we can be rather square. Fortunately it’s not genetic. It’s the byproduct of years of strong enculturation and can be unlearned.

[TheSpoonMan]

There is the trick of coming in on the emphasized note a bit sharp and/or a bit ahead of the beat, but not to the point it sounds wrong, obviously. Many of us whites can have trouble with that, as we can be rather square. Fortunately it’s not genetic. It’s the byproduct of years of strong enculturation and can be unlearned.

Hmm... I wouldn't advise that for Irish music, though. Doesn't really fit. Coming in ahead of the beat I mean.

[TheSpoonMan]

There is the trick of coming in on the emphasized note a bit sharp and/or a bit ahead of the beat, but not to the point it sounds wrong, obviously. Many of us whites can have trouble with that, as we can be rather square. Fortunately it’s not genetic. It’s the byproduct of years of strong enculturation and can be unlearned.

Hmm... I wouldn't advise that for Irish music, though. Doesn't really fit. Coming in ahead of the beat I mean. Course I'm just a beginner, so I could be wrong, but... I don't know. It dons't feel right. Throws the whole feel of the dance off, I think.

[sbhikes]

I did see a movie long ago, The Commitments I believe. According to them, the Irish are the Blacks of Europe.

[MaryC]

I did see a movie long ago, The Commitments I believe. According to them, the Irish are the Blacks of Europe.

That was before the Tiger roared. Now the worm has turned (to mix our metaphors a little), and it's the Poles, Latvians, Chezks, etc. Or perhaps it was the Travellers all along.

[MTGuru]

Veering back on topic ...

Ditto all the above, except the wacky reverse blues suggestion. But here's a question: If you play that figure one octave lower as GBG FAF, do you find you have the same problem? I'll bet the answer is no. The upper octave should really be no different; the same phrasing and articulation should work to keep it jiggy. If your whistle is really that screechy up there, try experimenting with embouchure, breath, whistle angle etc. to pull it back. Or, of course, use a more balanced whistle.

[walrii]

Grey Larsen mentions "playing on front of the beat" in the Essential Tin Whistle Toolbox and says it can be a good thing. I am sufficiently square that I haven't figured out how to experiment with that yet. I will try all the other suggestions listed above.

[TheSpoonMan]

Grey Larsen mentions "playing on front of the beat" in the Essential Tin Whistle Toolbox and says it can be a good thing. I am sufficiently square that I haven't figured out how to experiment with that yet. I will try all the other suggestions listed above.

Hmm... interesting. I'd like to hear that!

[MTGuru]

To be fair, I don't really understand Rod's suggestion. Maybe he can explain it in more detail, and describe how it would apply to the gbg faf figure, or cite a recorded example of its use. I don't think I've ever heard this sliding into an emphasized note microtonally from above on whistle.

There *is* a kind of "delayed anticipation" that I use, but it involves coming at the note from below. It's basically a classical appoggiatura, and applies mostly as a substitute for a long roll. For example, in K:G, instead of playing ~G3 = G{B}G{F}G you steal a beat from the roll for an F, then resolve to a mid-cut on the rolled note. In this case you get FG{B}G. For the gbg faf figure, you could substitute rolls ~g3 ~f3, then delayed rolls fg{b}g ef{a}f. It's a nice variant, but I'm not sure it addresses bigpow's challenge of keeping things jiggy.

Is this maybe what Larsen means? I don't have the book, and read it only once quite a while ago ...

[Rod Sprague]

Coming in slightly ahead or slightly sharp is usually done very subtly. They are just a couple of the many tricks used by musicians, so I don’t suggest them as panaceas, just one more thing to have heard in other people’s music and to try if it seems like it would help in a particular situation. I may have confused the issue by bringing up something that is best heard in other people’s music and copied on a less analytical level.

[bigpow5]

thanks for all the suggestions. I've been playing around with dropping to the lower ocatve for gBg and that works. I'll mess around with some of the other suggestions.

I just got a brand spanking new Sindt in the mail. Whoa it sounds nice!