Learning by ear

[PaulM]

I've been playing the whistle for several weeks, mostly using Larsen's book and CDs. My background is in classic/flamenco guitar (years ago) and clarinet (many, many years ago). I'm retired, 63, and discovered the whistle makes the kind of music I've always loved (thought it was from a recorder!)

I just have a tough time memorizing tunes without looking at the sheet music. I know there're no magic pills, but someone may have some helpful suggestions.

I'm also looking for sad, or contemplative laments, aires etc. with slides to help develop expression. I love Lament for Fred Finn. Others?

Thanks- I love the help this forum provides.
Paul

[cowtime]

I too rely on the written notes too much. I've also noticed over the years that the tunes I learn from reading the music are not as "ingrained".

On the other hand, the tunes that I learn by ear, while taking longer to have a recognizable result, are stuck. I've just this week, been working on a tune from a Patrick Street cd that I love. It's already in my hands much more reliably than anything I've learned from notation.

So, I guess, the point to this is, learn the tune till you've got it in your head. Then, put it in your hands.

[Redwolf]

If you like airs and laments, the best way to learn to play them well (and to memorize them) is to sing them. Failing that, hearing a good recording of someone versed in the sean-nós tradition singing them can be very helpful.

A favorite "sad" air of mine is Airde Cuan.

Redwolf

[A-Musing]

Paul...
I'm 62, and took up the whistle for the beautiful sound and particularly the heart-rending tones of slow airs. After 8-9 years, I've memorized probably 100-200 songs/tunes. The majority of them were learned from written music. (One book got me started, Traditional Slow Airs of Ireland, by Tomas O'Canainn)
I learn 'em while looking, then gradually play away from the page...till each tune is mine. And this process, for me, has enabled me to then play songs from my memory, songs that I hear, etc. Folk tunes, hymns, old pop melodies that linger, and so on. I go where the muse pleasures.

Aside. Being turned on by haunting airs and wonderful ancient and modern melodies has taken me to where I play only Low Whistles. Low D to Low F. I like to hear good players use high-pitched whistles, but have fallen in love with the earthy low tones. On a good day, it's really beautiful! Welcome and good whistling.

[s1m0n]

On the other hand, the tunes that I learn by ear, while taking longer to have a recognizable result, are stuck.

I have found exactly this, as well. I've learned and forgotten dozens if not hundreds of tunes that I learned from a score, but the ones I've learned by ear are there forever.

[Cynth]

Hi PaulM---This website had what I thought was some helpful advice about learning dance tunes by ear---stuff about the structure that can make them easier to remember because you can identify more easily what is going on, stuff about learning a phrase at a time. I don't know. If you've learned the tune mostly by ear then it is mostly memorized I think.
http://www.slowplayers.org/SCTLS/learn.html

It seems to work out best for me if I listen to the tune enough so that I can pretty much whistle it with my lips or hum it before I try it on the whistle as cowtime mentions. It would take me a few days to be able to do this---I'm not fast at picking up a tune and remembering it. They say you can get a lot better at this with practice, and I think that is probably true. While I'm listening I'll notice things about the structure that sort of help me along---like bits that repeat other bits and the like. Eventually I'll notice that the tune is running through my head while I'm doing the laundry or that I'm whistling it when I'm washing the dishes. Then I know I'm getting close to being ready to learn it on the whistle. When I'm ready I'll know where I'm going when I try to play it and by the time I can play it (well, I'd hardly call it playing, but....) I have got it memorized. I guess it's sort of like if you were to learn Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star on the whistle you probably wouldn't find that hard to memorize because you know the tune, right? It would take awhile to remember where to put your fingers, but you wouldn't forget what the notes were supposed to sound like.

I found it almost impossible to memorize classical music when I was taking piano lessons and what I thought was memorized really wasn't---it was rote playing. I never knew the music well enough to have it memorized. I think with most dance tunes a person does have a chance to know the music well enough to truly memorize it.

[PaulM]

Thanks everyone - I'm grateful for the guidance. And I'm pursuing it.
Pauljavascript:emoticon(':D')
big grin

[Dukkha]

I decided to go cold turkey on sheet music, except using it to identify tunes. It's rough at first, especially if you were classically trained, but it pays off because as mentioned above you'll actually remember the tune better. You'll reach a point where you start learning tunes faster and faster. I noticed that when I was reading the music, I wasn't really hearing it. I was looking ahead at the next measure.

[Denny]

someone may have some helpful suggestions

practice

[chrisoff]

The only way I've found to remember tunes (be it on guitar or whistle) is to play them. My fingers remember what they're supposed to do a lot better than I do.

The other night I picked up my whistle for the first time in ages and intended to play the last song out of the bill ochs tuition book I've been working through slowly, instead I started playing the muffin man. I was sure I'd forgotten how to play that as for the life of me I couldn't remember, but my fingers did.

Other times I've been trying to tab guitar parts out for band members and I can't remember what I play at all, and I wrote the stuff! But as soon as I pick up the guitar my fingers will know what to do.

Basically I use the sheet music or the song I'm learning from as a way of training my fingers. As long as the tune is in my head and my fingers know where they're going I'll remember it.

[Tony McGinley]

I am handicapped by being illiterate musically.
I have found the best way to learn tunes is to listen
to the tune over and over until it "sticks" in my head.

Good recordings help, not only in learning the tune,
but also in the way I tend to play it afterwards. I pick
up tonal cues and decorations by osmosis!!

If I have difficulty with certain passages etc. I use the
"slow downer" programme to get to hear the detail
with more definition. The slow downer is also good to "tune"
the recording to your whistle.

[doogieman]

I usually listen to a tune enough that I can hear it in my head and hum it. Then I can sort of "rough in" the tune. After that, I use the charts/dots/sheet music to help me clean up those pesky little parts. I have found John Skelton's book/cd sets to be an excellent tool for this.
I know you can find them at Ossian: http://www.ossianusa.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?

[Denny]

If I have difficulty with certain passages etc. I use the
"slow downer" programme to get to hear the detail
with more definition. The slow downer is also good to "tune"
the recording to your whistle.

very helpful thing...

[Stellatum]

On Michael Eskin's site, the first video under "backup" http://www.tradlessons.com/?cat=18
has a beautiful piped reel, which is unnamed. Since I don't know the name (SHH! DON'T TELL ME!) I can't go looking it up on thesession.org, so I am trying for the first time to learn a tune completely by ear.

I read music well enough that I could play it decently, if a bit slow, the first time I saw it. But learning it by hearing it is a really painstaking process for me--I keep setting the video back to hear the same five-note phrase over. I hope that eventually I'll get better at this.

I really admire by-ear-only, can't-read-music musicians. People like me who are completely dependent on written music are like people who watch lunar eclipses on television.

[chrisoff]

People like me who are completely dependent on written music are like people who watch lunar eclipses on television.

Incidentally there's one this Saturday night. Set your VCR.