Does anyone know why we say "tune" instead of song

colomon · Post by **colomon** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:34 am

Wombat wrote:BTW, what a talent Jon Hendricks has.

Absolutely. One of the greatest lyricists, a fine, fine singer, and a very nice man as well.

Though he usually forgets to tell me about gigs so I can put them on the webpage.

Adrian · Post by **Adrian** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:16 pm

fearfaoin wrote:Ah, but baggins_21's question was "Why", for which we go to the
Etymology (also from m-w.com):

Song
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English sang;
akin to Old English singan to sing

Tune
Etymology: Middle English, alteration of tone

So, it looks like from the beginning, the word "tune" was based on the
tones (the notes) themselves, while the word "song" came from the
act of using the voice.

Interestingly the etymology of tone is "Middle English, from Latin
tonus tension, tone, from Greek tonos, literally, act of stretching;
akin to Greek teinein to stretch" ...makes me think of string instruments
(which you tune by stretching a string).

String is chorda in Latin from the Greek ... makes me think of vocal chord and therefore voice

fearfaoin · Post by **fearfaoin** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:22 pm

Adrian wrote:String is chorda in Latin from the Greek ... makes me think of vocal chord and therefore voice

Touche'.

anniemcu · Post by **anniemcu** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:21 pm

tune = melody
song = words

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:33 am

NancyF wrote:And what yet of "Chune"?

I had a lovely experience in Innishere playing a "chune" requested by the accordian busker at Dun Angus.

...so you take requests, eh?

...just shutup and play...
-Anon-

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:45 am

because it's difficult to sing & play a whistle at the same time.

dubhlinn · Post by **dubhlinn** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:05 am

Wombat wrote:
colomon wrote: Ha! I'm Jon Hendricks' webmaster. I would certainly call his songs songs.

Amazing. I never know whether to think 'small world' or 'oh well, everybody hangs out here after all.'

Yep, no point in not calling them songs. The waters are muddy enough without needlessly worsening matters.

BTW, what a talent Jon Hendricks has.

Count me in on this as well, Jon Hendricks webmaster on the Chiff

Slan,
D.

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 7:45 am

dubhlinn wrote:
Count me in on this as well, Jon Hendricks webmaster on the Chiff

With El McMeen dropping in to say 'hi, and thanks for the compliments' a few days ago, I reckon we should be hearing from Jon himself any day now.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:33 am

khl wrote:
Wanderer wrote:courtesy of www.m-w.com

Main Entry: tune
Pronunciation: 'tün, 'tyün
Function: noun
2 a : a succession of pleasing musical tones : MELODY b : a dominant theme

Main Entry: song
Pronunciation: 'so[ng]
Function: noun
3 a : a short musical composition of words and music
5 a : a melody for a lyric poem or ballad

Most of the definitions for tune imply a melody line...most of the definitions for song imply either a lyrical poem, something sung, or music intended to go along with singing.
So what about those things someone plays that may have (or had) lyrics, but that are mostly played on instruments now? I've been learning tunes from Ireland's Best Tin Whistle Tunes and The Complete Irish Tinwhistle Tunebook and so on only to find later that many have lyrics somewhere or other. Do I call them tunes or songs? Are the titles of the books, technically, wrong? Help.

I'd call them "airs." The "air" is the tune of a song. That makes it clear that you're only playing the melody line and not actually singing.

Redwolf

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:39 am

Wombat wrote:
With El McMeen dropping in to say 'hi, and thanks for the compliments' a few days ago, I reckon we should be hearing from Jon himself any day now.

Last saturdaynight I had Kevin Crawford passing comments on our exchange with Screeeech, you never know who may be reading

. ANyway, he got a good laugh out of it.

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:57 am

Peter Laban wrote:
Wombat wrote:
With El McMeen dropping in to say 'hi, and thanks for the compliments' a few days ago, I reckon we should be hearing from Jon himself any day now.
Last saturdaynight I had Kevin Crawford passing comments on our exchange with Screeeech, you never know who may be reading . ANyway, he got a good laugh out of it.

colomon · Post by **colomon** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:32 am

Wombat wrote:
dubhlinn wrote: Count me in on this as well, Jon Hendricks webmaster on the Chiff
With El McMeen dropping in to say 'hi, and thanks for the compliments' a few days ago, I reckon we should be hearing from Jon himself any day now.

Eh, I tried to teach Jon how to do a bit of websurfing a few years back, but I fear I wasn't the best of teachers. And as far as I know, he doesn't have any particular interest in whistles. Though he does do that bit in concert where he borrows a drumstick and (lip) whistles a solo while pretending it's a flute.

I got to be his webmaster through a happy chance. When he started teaching at the University of Toledo, the university's PR person there decided he should have a webpage. She searched online, and discovered I had a webpage that talked about Jon, and hey! -- I only lived a few hours away. (50 minutes now that I'm in Ann Arbor.) So she invited me down for a concert, introduced him to me, and asked me to do an official webpage for him. I was honored and delighted.

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:42 am

colomon wrote:
Wombat wrote:
dubhlinn wrote: Count me in on this as well, Jon Hendricks webmaster on the Chiff
With El McMeen dropping in to say 'hi, and thanks for the compliments' a few days ago, I reckon we should be hearing from Jon himself any day now.
Eh, I tried to teach Jon how to do a bit of websurfing a few years back, but I fear I wasn't the best of teachers. And as far as I know, he doesn't have any particular interest in whistles. Though he does do that bit in concert where he borrows a drumstick and (lip) whistles a solo while pretending it's a flute.

I got to be his webmaster through a happy chance. When he started teaching at the University of Toledo, the university's PR person there decided he should have a webpage. She searched online, and discovered I had a webpage that talked about Jon, and hey! -- I only lived a few hours away. (50 minutes now that I'm in Ann Arbor.) So she invited me down for a concert, introduced him to me, and asked me to do an official webpage for him. I was honored and delighted.

What a delightful job that must be.

Hey, since when do you have to be interested in whistles to hang out here? Any keen student of human nature would have a ball here and if anyone is a keen (well brilliant) student of human nature, Jon is. Songs like 'Twisted' and 'Gimme that Wine' just crack me up. And the solo to 'Cloudburst' must be one of the cleverest bits of lyric writing I've ever heard.

colomon · Post by **colomon** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:41 am

Wombat wrote:Songs like 'Twisted' and 'Gimme that Wine' just crack me up. And the solo to 'Cloudburst' must be one of the cleverest bits of lyric writing I've ever heard.

Actually, "Twisted" is one of Annie Ross's lyrics.

Complete agreement from me on "Cloudburst", it's a true gem.

Finn MacCool · Post by **Finn MacCool** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:28 am

colomon wrote:The best known example is probably "Auntie Mary" (aka "Cock of the North"): "Auntie Mary had a canary up the leg of her drawers..."

I don't know whether to blush

or giggle

. "Auntie Mary, is that a canary in your drawers, or are you just happy to see me?"