Recorder question.

[ninjaaron]

My mom is looking at buying a tenor Recorder (for both of us, I think, from the way she talks). Anyway These are supposed to all be in the key of C, correct. There was one on Ebay that said it was in the key of D, and that sounded like a bunch of garbage.

I like recorders. Tin Whistles are better, but recorders rock hard as well.

i aught to post recorder pictures some day.

[peeplj]

A tenor recorder, like a soprano, is in the orchestral key of C. This corresponds to a D whistle or flute. The tenor recorder plays in the same octave as the D flute; the soprano in the same octave as the D whistle.

An alto recorder is in the key of F, as is the sopranino. This corresponds to a whistle in the key of G. The sopranino is in the same octave as a high G whistle.

Also there is a kind of early recorder called a handflute that can be had in the orchestral key of D, corresponding to an E whistle.

--James

[ninjaaron]

A tenor recorder, like a soprano, is in the orchestral key of C. This corresponds to a D whistle or flute. The tenor recorder plays in the same octave as the D flute; the soprano in the same octave as the D whistle.

An alto recorder is in the key of F, as is the sopranino. This corresponds to a whistle in the key of G. The sopranino is in the same octave as a high G whistle.

Also there is a kind of early recorder called a handflute that can be had in the orchestral key of D, corresponding to an E whistle.

--James

I don't know if I quite follow... My D whistle is one whole tone higher than my soprano recorder... you just mean that they are in the same octaves, right?

I assume that a Tenor Recorder is one whole tone lower than a D flute, and begins on the same pitch as my C flute...

That is not how I would understand your post if I had no background. It's a little confusing.

[fluti31415]

A tenor recorder, like a soprano, is in the orchestral key of C. This corresponds to a D whistle or flute. The tenor recorder plays in the same octave as the D flute; the soprano in the same octave as the D whistle.

An alto recorder is in the key of F, as is the sopranino. This corresponds to a whistle in the key of G. The sopranino is in the same octave as a high G whistle.

Also there is a kind of early recorder called a handflute that can be had in the orchestral key of D, corresponding to an E whistle.

--James

I don't know if I quite follow... My D whistle is one whole tone higher than my soprano recorder... you just mean that they are in the same octaves, right?

I assume that a Tenor Recorder is one whole tone lower than a D flute, and begins on the same pitch as my C flute...

That is not how I would understand your post if I had no background. It's a little confusing.

I think that what he's saying is that if you put six fingers down on your recorder, you'll get the same "D" note that you would get if you put six fingers down on your whistle. The problem comes in because there are two systems to tell what key an instrument is in. For whistles and simple system flutes, it is the note that is played with six fingers down. With other instruments, it is what note you hear when you play what would be notated as a C in the music.

So what we call a D flute or a D whistle would be called a C instrument by a classical player, because playing a C sounds a C. On the alto recorder, (and an english horn, but that's beside the point) playing a C sounds an F, so it's called an F instrument by classical players. I hope this makes more sense.

[brewerpaul]

A Tenor recorder in C is pitched like a low D whistle. The extra notes below D are just tacked on at the bottom. The fundamental scale of this recorder is D.

Tell your Mom to look at the Yamaha plastic Tenors. They are really terrific sounding instruments which cost in the $70ish range. To get a comparable wooden instrument, you'd have to pay LOTS more.

[John S]

I would agree with brewerpaul, the Yamaha Tenors are very good and excellent value for money.
http://www.encoremusic.com/recorder/2160008_alt_gf.html

TTFN

John S

[peeplj]

Ok, want one to really blow your mind?

My modern Gemeinhardt flute is still a D flute, even though the "native" scale is often described as C (though I can make a good argument that behind all the keywork it's still really D), and even though the lowest note is B.

fluti31415 got it right: the lower notes on the recorder are "tacked on" to the bottom of the scale much like C#, C, and B are "tacked on" to the bottom of the scale on the modern flute.

A C recorder is really just a D whistle with a few extra holes and a fancy fingering system. By the same token, my silver flute is still just a D flute, with many extra holes, a mechanism of keys to help cover them, and an altered bore--but still, in the end, just a D flute.

--James

[Adrian]

Tenor recorders are normally in C. That is they play C with all holes covered. However, it is also possible to get them in D though that is not very common. They are called 'voice flutes'. They can be bought from:

http://www.dolmetsch.com/handmaderecorders.htm

There also descants in D available, altos in G etc



Mollenhauer make 'modern recorders' that play the third octave and although are in the key of C also play a full tone lower to Bb using keys.

http://www.mollenhauer.com/HTML/ENGLISH/HARMON_e.HTM

[Bretton]

While we're on the topic...

I've been thinking about getting a recorder for playing "early music" ...not sure that's the correct term (does that cover Baroque?). I have very little expericne with that type of music or with recorders (since the 3rd grade, anyway), but I really enjoy listening to it when it gets played on the local public radio station and thought I'd give playing a try.

I've noticed that there are Baroque, Renaissance, and Modern recorders. Which is the one usually used?

Any suggestions for good recorder Web sites to check out?

Thanks.

-Brett

[peeplj]

Baroque recorder is the one most commonly played, and also the one most commonly heard in recordings. Alto is the most useful key, followed by descant. Tenor and Bass are not used unless you are playing in consort with other musicians.

Baroque recorder will work just fine on Medieval, Renaissance, and Baroque music.

You will find it far easier to find other musicians to play with if you stick to instruments tuned to A=440.

A good website to check out is

http://www.recorderhomepage.net/

Best wishes, and good luck!

--James

[fluti31415]

Ok, want one to really blow your mind?

My modern Gemeinhardt flute is still a D flute, even though the "native" scale is often described as C (though I can make a good argument that behind all the keywork it's still really D), and even though the lowest note is B.


--James

But no one would call a modern Boehm flute a D flute -- using the traditional language for an orchestral instrument is just out of context.

[brewerpaul]

Here's a recorder group, although I warn you it's nowhere near as fun as Chiff and Fipple:

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/recorder/

[peeplj]

Ok, want one to really blow your mind?

My modern Gemeinhardt flute is still a D flute, even though the "native" scale is often described as C (though I can make a good argument that behind all the keywork it's still really D), and even though the lowest note is B.


--James

But no one would call a modern Boehm flute a D flute -- using the traditional language for an orchestral instrument is just out of context.

Maybe...or maybe a flute's a flute.

I can play Bach and Mozart on my Hamilton, I can play reels and jigs and hornpipes on my Gemeinhardt, and I can play rock-n-roll on my Baroque traverso.

Not that there aren't differences in the flutes and the way they play--that's not the point. The point is that a thing is what it is, no matter what you call it.

When Boehm set out to design what eventually became the modern orchestral flute, his starting point was the very same simple-system flutes that we now use for Irish trad--and we call those D flutes.

--James

[Walden]

I don't know if I quite follow... My D whistle is one whole tone higher than my soprano recorder... you just mean that they are in the same octaves, right?

I assume that a Tenor Recorder is one whole tone lower than a D flute, and begins on the same pitch as my C flute...

That is not how I would understand your post if I had no background. It's a little confusing.

What our friend James is trying to say is, paraphrased in my own poor musical language, that we call a D whistle a "D instrument" because with all holes closed, the note is D. The same is true of a C recorder, it's called a "C instrument" because that's its note with all holes closed. However, on a D whistle that low note is a do in a D scale, and on a C recorder that low note is a si/ti in a D scale, so the difference in terminology is that the recorder just allows you to go down one more step, but the basic major scale there is D, on both instruments. Of course, obviously it's not the most difficult matter to play a C recorder in the key of C.

James is well educated in both recorder and flute. He has a very informative and helpful Web site at http://www.flutesite.com

[Chiffed]

From the point of view of arranging for mixed instruments, whisltles are named wrong - well, just different. If an instrument is non-transposing in the treble clef, it is a C instrument, regardless of it's fundemental (in the arranger's paradigm).

Don't read on if you've never transposed.

D whistles are C instruments to a band or orch arranger.

Rule for Transposing Instruments (other than whistles): When I play a C, I sound my own name. Eg: Eb Alto Sax plays a C, sounds and Eb.

Much of the confusion with whistle vs some other winds is that seventh finger, but to make thinks worse, many instruments have extensions below their fundemental (clarinet, basset horn, oboe, sax, b-foot flutes,etc). When I think of the contra-bass clarinet I once played, with 15 keys just for pinkies and left thumb, I love my tweaked Gen that much more.