The Future of Celtic Whistles

[perrins57]

I dislike disagreeing,
however it must be admitted
that Ireland was NOT the originator and centre of
ALL modern scientific discovery.
That would be going just a little too far.

It was however the last outpost and preserve
of Culture, Music, Literature and Spirituality for the world.

At one time Ireland was know as:
The Island of Saints and Scholars.



America was first discovered by an Irish Monk
Saint Brendan who sailed from Brandon Creek
on the Dingle Peninsula in a Leather Boat.



The Chapel of St Gall in Dingle as it is today.

Another Monk Saint Gall founded Universities to re-civilise
Europe. The City of SanGallen in Switzerland and its
University was founded by an Irishman.

While most of Europe was hopelessly in the grip
of the DARK AGES, Ireland was busy training its
saints to go forth and create the Renaissance and
re-awakening of the Arts, Music, Literature and Spirituality
in a Dark and Dreary Europe.

It was at this time also that the Europeans
learned of such things as wine cellars,
and of musical instruments like the harp
and tin whistle. The monks and Saints
brought samples with them.

While Ireland therefore is NOT
"The Mother of Invention"
It was, and still is, "The Preserver of

Art and Culture" for the rest of the world.

I knew you just couldn't resist it!

[Tony McGinley]

Exciting New Developments
in the Historic Research of,
and in the Future of Celtic Whistles.


Latest archaeological news from the
West of Ireland suggests the Ancient Celts
had a high level of scientific knowledge
regarding the dynamics of wind instruments.
This is a ground-breaking discovery
which, if proven, will upset all current
scientific understanding in the history of physics.

This knowledge FAR exceeds anything in current
understanding about the science of air flow and
resonance in blown wind instruments.
This 3000 year old Celtic musical artefact
appears to operate in the realm of
Quantum-Acoustics.

We are all familiar with the Bible story
of the Walls of Jericho and their destruction
by means of a trumpet. As school children
we wondered what sort of trumpet
could break down a wall.
Current research being carried out
on this new find of a whistle/trumpet type instrument
at the University of West Cork, suggests
that this instrument could create
soundwaves of an amplitude and frequency
never before thought possible.

Professor Tóin MacCac of the Department
Quantum Physics at the University of West Cork said:
"both Ultra-Sonic and Sub-Sonic waves, in
addition to audible or musical frequencies,
are capable of being produced by this instrument,
and it can produce these sound waves at massive amplitudes".

Apparently the design uses a unique type of fipple
which causes a reaction in the air flow similar
to the reaction caused with light waves in a LASER.
Little yet is understood of this "Sound-Laser" effect.

Prof. MacCac pointed out that there could be dangers
involved if this type of whistle were to be reproduced.
The plans and design features are therefore being
kept highly secret and under a top level of security.

Exciting times for Celtic peoples everywhere.
We can never again look at the tin whistle
in the same way.

[perrins57]

Thank you Professor of Archaeology & Ancient Woodwind Dr Tony McGinley

[ninjaaron]

Apparently the design uses a unique type of fipple
which causes a reaction in the air flow similar
to the reaction caused with light waves in a LASER.
Little yet is understood of this "Sound-Laser" effect.

So science has dicovered the sopranino G?

Well, it was only a matter of time.

[Tony McGinley]

The Celtic Code




Irish Music Infected with Virus.

Advanced computer analysis,
similar to that used in breaking the DNA code,
is currently being used to "de-code" Celtic Music,
at the University of West Cork.

Though unwilling to comment directly on the findings,
Dr. Mún Mór, a spokes person for the University,
said that there are indications of a coherent digital like
code embedded within much of Celtic music.

It seems that this encoded information,
embedded deeply within the musics structure,
reacts directly with parts of the human brain.
It then seems to set up a
"Psycho-Acoustic Resonance"
activating elements in the brain stem
and also in the frontal lobes.
This in turn causes, among other cerebral activity,
a pleasurable sensation to be experienced by the persons affected.
The encoded information goes on to create several other effects
the implications of which are not as yet understood.

One commentator suggested that the electro-chemical reactions
and psychological effects of the encoded information,
with its DNA like structure, had on the brain,
was remarkably like that which a virus has in a computer.

This reaction or infection of the brain of the listener
by the "Celtic-Code" would explain the
strange phenomena of the growing popularity of Irish music,
with its otherwise unrefined, sometimes monotonous,
and basic structure.

There are some suggestion of possible other more sinister
effects of the Celtic-Code, such as brainwashing
or mass hypnosis. The mass hypnosis effect of music
is well illustrated in other popular forms of music,
but these do not have the highly complex
digital DNA like encoding found in Celtic music.

It would be therefore prudent to limit how
much Irish music one listens to and plays,
until such time as the "Celtic-Code" can be broken.

[perrins57]

Thank you Professor of Archaeology, Ancient Woodwind & Genoacoustics - Dr Tony McGinley

[Tommy]

Deep

[Shaun-Patrick Young]

Hello.

I never dreamed that this thread would get soooooooo far. Where it's gone, I'm not exactly sure, but I have to admit you folk are certainly enthusiastic.

Let's review.

I was curious as to whether there was still interest in Celtic (I spell it with a "K") whistles, and I believe the answer to that original question is "YES."

So. Now that we've analyzed the word "Keltoi" to the point of exhaustion, and I'm now convinced that PVC has been used since the time of Romans, I'd like to know more about what folk are using. For example, before I started making copper whistles, I was making PVC cross-winds, and I'm somewhat torn between the two sounds.

Before the "six-hole" flute/whistle made it's appearance in Europe, the Chinese had been using a very interesting crosswind flute for about a thousand years or so that had the embouchure located in the middle of the tube with three holes on either side. Does anyone know what the name of that instrument was?

I've tried to make a whistle "ramp" that simulates the flute sound, but, alas, it still boils down to carefully making a channel (the depth is STILL a very debated issue) as an embouchure. I even tried to reverse the ramp from "out to in" instead of "in to out" as is normal. That was a disaster, and I had to throw away some copper with that experiment.

Then there's the length of the ramp. I've noticed that shorter ramps or whistles that have thin walls (like the rolled tin varieties) have kind of a "toyish" feel in the sound, whereas the thicker walled types (wood and PVC) have a "deeper" "smoother" sound. I make my copper whistles using a process where I double up the copper to be able to make a longer ramp, and it seems to help in octave transitions.

I was just wondering what you think of the differences between whistle types? It helps me to know the future of Celtic whistles, and helps me to design a better whistle.

Thanks.

The Keltic Dead

[talasiga]

You're quite right, the "Keltic" whistle

Speaking of tradition, Mr Young, why have you decided to spell Celtic with a "K"?
Granted, it would stop some Americans pronouncing it wrong, but for some reason,
it makes me cringe to see that... Maybe there's precedent? Maybe I'm just a pedant.

you kringe bekause you are overly latinised my friend.

The use of a "K" is from the Greek and Roman word "Keltoi".

I'll give you the Greek, but there's no K in Latin. In Classical Latin pronunciation, "C" is always
pronounced hard (like a "K"), despite coming before "E" or "I", or even "AE"... The C wasn't
softened until much, much later in British Church Latin, because of the influence of English,
which is why we ended up pronouncing the sports teams wrong (i.e., Boston or Glasgow
Celtics).

When Caeser wrote of the Celts, he used the word "Celti" (the singular nominative form is "Celtus")

I congratulate your response.

Just one clarification. The softening of the c as you say is due to British Church Latin. But that Church Latin originates in France and the softeneing of the c is a feature of the Latin/Celtic conflux that resulted in French. As readers would be aware, the greatest cultural and linguistic turn in Britain occurrred when William the Conqueror established the Norman French monarchy in England 1066 +.

Speaking of rulers, I take it you pronounce Caesar as Kaesar? Hmm?

Ah, combatting American ignorance. I can relate.
........

I quite like combatting ignorance. However I would not like to take on American ignorance. It is a major field of study about which I am very ignorant.

[Darwin]

The use of a "K" is from the Greek and Roman word "Keltoi".

I'll give you the Greek, but there's no K in Latin. In Classical Latin pronunciation, "C" is always pronounced hard (like a "K"), despite coming before "E" or "I", or even "AE"...

Right.

The C wasn't softened until much, much later in British Church Latin, because of the influence of English, which is why we ended up pronouncing the sports teams wrong (i.e., Boston or Glasgow Celtics).

That's a bit misleading. Palatization of /k/ and /g/ before /e/ and /i/ seems to have begun in various dialects of Vulgar Latin, which is why we see them in the various Romance languages that descended from those dialects. I suspect that British Church Latin is based on the Church Latin of France and/or Italy, not directly on Classical Latin.

That particular kind of palatalization is not an English phenomenon in the first place, which is why we need the letter "k" for non-Romance words, like "kill", "kick", "key", etc. The vast majority of English words that have "c" as /s/ before "e" or "i" came into English that way, as loan words via French or Church Latin, though a few may have been spelled that way by analogy. (And Old English words that were spelled with initial "c" before "a" were often changed to use "k" when the vowel came to be written "e", because the Romance-style palatalization did not occur.)

[Tony McGinley]

Hello.

I never dreamed that this thread would get soooooooo far. Where it's gone, I'm not exactly sure, but I have to admit you folk are certainly enthusiastic.

Let's review.

I was curious as to whether there was still interest in Celtic (I spell it with a "K") whistles, and I believe the answer to that original question is "YES."

So. Now that we've analyzed the word "Keltoi" to the point of exhaustion, and I'm now convinced that PVC has been used since the time of Romans, I'd like to know more about what folk are using. For example, before I started making copper whistles, I was making PVC cross-winds, and I'm somewhat torn between the two sounds.

Before the "six-hole" flute/whistle made it's appearance in Europe, the Chinese had been using a very interesting crosswind flute for about a thousand years or so that had the embouchure located in the middle of the tube with three holes on either side. Does anyone know what the name of that instrument was?

I've tried to make a whistle "ramp" that simulates the flute sound, but, alas, it still boils down to carefully making a channel (the depth is STILL a very debated issue) as an embouchure. I even tried to reverse the ramp from "out to in" instead of "in to out" as is normal. That was a disaster, and I had to throw away some copper with that experiment.

Then there's the length of the ramp. I've noticed that shorter ramps or whistles that have thin walls (like the rolled tin varieties) have kind of a "toyish" feel in the sound, whereas the thicker walled types (wood and PVC) have a "deeper" "smoother" sound. I make my copper whistles using a process where I double up the copper to be able to make a longer ramp, and it seems to help in octave transitions.

I was just wondering what you think of the differences between whistle types? It helps me to know the future of Celtic whistles, and helps me to design a better whistle.

Thanks.

The Keltic Dead

Conas atá tú "Seán Pádraig Óg"

Dont take it badly that the thread went completly "off the wall". We all like a bit of craic now and then.

We also seriously need people like you who will continue experimenting with whistle design, and documenting their efforts and findings. There is loads of room for improvement in current designs.

Interesting what you were saying about the thickness of the material. What facinates me is just HOW MANY variables there are in such a simple instrument, and how each of these tiny little tweaks affects the overall sound.

Keep up the good work and let us know how your experiments go.