Santa Claus is coming to town!

Flyingcursor · Post by **Flyingcursor** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:38 am

Very interesting history. And Claudine, nice avatar.

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:53 am

Ofcourse little Dutch boys and girls still think the good Saint arrives from Spain in his steamboat (the former signifying any old foreign place while the latter isn't viable when trying to get to Luxembourg).

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 5:18 am

claudine wrote:As far as I know, St Nicolas did not come from Sibiria. He was a bishop in the area of modern Turkey, and lived in the 4th century. His traditional dress is that of a bishop. And the pope is dressed in white.

Heh heh... well... as you find out, Lorenzo's not a big fan of conventional history.

Happy St. Nicholas Day (today, as of this writing)!

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:02 am

Walden wrote:Heh heh... well... as you find out, Lorenzo's not a big fan of conventional history.

Right! And to think...New York use to be called New Amsterdam! And Christmas use to be on Dec. 6!

GaryKelly · Post by **GaryKelly** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 10:11 am

Coca-Cola didn't invent the red-suited Santa, he'd been around for almost 50 years before they used him to help boost sales of their fizzy drink at Christmas.

See: http://www.snopes.com/cokelore/santa.asp for a pretty good write-up on the subject.

As they say there: "Coca-Cola certainly helped make Santa Claus one of the most popular men in America, but they didn't invent him."

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:04 am

Hear hear! Have another drink from the fountain of truth! .

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:17 pm

Lorenzo wrote:And Christmas use to be on Dec. 6!

In a sense. Celebration of the Nativity had been included with Epiphany, early on, before, as you said, being separated to December 25, in the time of Cyril. Adding to this is also the issue of Old Christmas, which was a matter of the controversy surrounding the calendar reforms, and simply that December 25 falls later according to the "old calendar." Jean Ritchie's version of The Cherry Tree Carol makes reference to the date of Old Christmas as the birthday of Christ. Her grandmother had been a big believer in Old Christmas.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:29 pm

Half my extended family goes by the Gregorian calendar, and the other half by the Julian in matters sacramental. Observing Christmas twice a year is something many of us are used to. January 7 is the more devotional, December 25 the more commercial, although we've pretty much dropped gift-giving except to the wee ones.

cowtime · Post by **cowtime** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:54 pm

In the early American colonies, celebration of Christmas was forbidden.

Actually it depended on just where in the American colonies you happened to be. Yes, in New England the Puritans declared it too papist and pagan.
But, down here in Ole Virginny they did keep Christmas. There are accounts of celebrations here in 1680 - wine, fiddlers,a jester, tight-rope walker,acrobat and a great deal of carousing.

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:03 pm

hmmmm.....in all my travels across the country, esp down south, no wonder my favorite states were the Virginias...NC coming in second. There was something about the people that told me they knew how to live.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:58 pm

Re: my previous post:

Just got the Dec. issue (late again, of course) of the local Irish Music and Dance Association Newsletter. There's a column, "Gaelic Corner", that covers a word or phrase each month. Exerpted from this month's column:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

--"Christmas" is the name of a day in English, but the Irish word, Nollaig, refers both to the day and the entire month of December. Of course, there are two Christmases, the big one (Nollaig Mhór) and "Little Christmas" (Nollaig Bheag). Little Christmas often refers to Feast of Epiphany, January 6, and is also known as Nollaig na mBan, or "Christmas of the women". The time between December 25 and January 6, then, is idir dhá Nollaig, between two Christmases.

Little Christmas, Nollaig Bheag, also refers to New Year's Day (Feast of Circumcision) sometimes. If we believe our old friend Dineen, people in Munster were more likely to use this term for Epiphany, while people in Connemara and Ulster were more likely to refer to New Year's Day.

Nollaig faoi shéan agus faoi shonas daoibh, a prosperous and happy Christmas to all of you!--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Just thought it was interesting, possibly a holdover from the old Julian caledar, perhaps? Although by that reckoning, Jan. 6 is actually Christmas Eve.....