Attention Cooperman and Sweet Whistle Owners

jim_mc · Post by **jim_mc** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:57 am

If anyone has an image of a Cooperman whistle they could post or e-mail to me, I'd be greatly appreciative.

Also, does anyone own a Sweet whistle made of metal? I've heard a rumor that such a thing existed at one time, and I'm looking to find an image or a description of that as well.

Thanks!

Jim

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:17 am

I've read about the metal Sweet but never seen one. I believe they were of the conical design similar to a Clarke.

I seem to remember they had a pretty good reputation.

--James

Tyghress · Post by **Tyghress** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:52 am

I dropped Ralph a note...lets see if he fesses up!

Feadan · Post by **Feadan** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 10:54 am

I heard somewhere that Ralph actually sold his metal whistle making device (that rolls the tin into a cone) to the Cooperman folks. I have one of the old Sweet whistles somewhere as well as a Cooperman. If memory serves Sweet used a plastic plug while Cooperman uses wood.

-David

Tyghress · Post by **Tyghress** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:41 pm

Reply from Ralph Sweet in re: did he make metal whistles at somepoint

Yes, I did make metal whistles, which were a version of the Clarke, in the days when they weren't interested in making them in "D" - only "C". They were tin-plated steel, we rolled them, soldered them, etc etc, and sold most of them to Cooperman Fife & Drum Co (Centerbrook CT) for sale mostly at historical outlets like Colonial Williamsburg.This was probably in the late 70's, for several years. But we weren't making any money off them ---now Cooperman is making them, themselves, and their version doesn't play worth a darn!!

Ralph

chattiekathy · Post by **chattiekathy** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:23 pm

Jim,

Sent you an email.

Cheers,
Kathy

jim_mc · Post by **jim_mc** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 9:39 am

Thanks to all! I got several e-mails and pm's in addition to these posts. I think I have what I need.

Jim

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:17 am

Cooperman Persimmon.

Cooperman Metal.

According to Ralph Sweet, these are a poor version of his original tin whistles... well... he said something to that effect in Dale's interview.

jim_mc · Post by **jim_mc** » Sat Jan 31, 2004 7:33 pm

I guess I still don't have all the information I need. It looks as if Cooperman makes or has made several different rolled metal whistles. I've seen images now of both conical and cylindrical (or very nearly cylindrical) whistles that folks say are Cooperman. I've heard reports of plastic or other synthetic fipple plugs, and even paint on the metal.

I believe that the mandrils and equipment that Ralph sold Cooperman were for cylindrical whistles. Ralph says they were essentially D versions of the Clarke C, and Ralph knows what he's talking about when it comes to whistles (and flutes, fifes, piccolos, etc.).

I sent a note to Patsy Ellis (the late Paddy Cooperman's daughter), and hopefully she'll be able to tell me something. She's been very helpful to me in the past with fife questions. I'll keep you all posted, and ask that anyone else who has a Cooperman whistle take some pictures of it and post them or e-mail them to me and I'll post them. This is especially important (well, to me, anyway) if your whistle is in some way different from the others that have been posted here.

Thanks again, everyone!

Jim

Tyghress · Post by **Tyghress** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:23 am

jim_mc wrote: I believe that the mandrils and equipment that Ralph sold Cooperman were for cylindrical whistles. Ralph says they were essentially D versions of the Clarke C, and Ralph knows what he's talking about when it comes to whistles (and flutes, fifes, piccolos, etc.).

I sent a note to Patsy Ellis (the late Paddy Cooperman's daughter), and hopefully she'll be able to tell me something.

Um, Jim

if A, Ralph said they were essentially Clarkes, and
B, Ralph knows what he's talking about, and
C, Clarkes are conical

how do you arrive at D, the equipment was for cylindrical whistles?

And have you emailed or talked to Ralph about this?
Also, I'm not sure what your basic goal is. Just wondering.

Inquiring minds, ya see. . .Curious Cat.

jim_mc · Post by **jim_mc** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:39 am

Yeah, I said that wrong. I mean that Ralph sold the Coopermans mandrils for CONICAL whistles. But I have seen cylindrical Coopermans. Which leads to my confusion.

One of the things I'm trying to do is to make sure we give proper advice to reenactors trying to portray camp music. Not portraying musician soldiers, fifers, drummers, buglers - I have that pretty well covered. For guys sitting around a campfire at night or something. Amateur musicians who might have stowed a whistle in their pack. For ACW, it's fairly simple - a Clarke, unpainted, in C. That's as accurate a "reproduction" as you're going to find. For AWI it gets trickier because the unpainted Clarkes are embossed (and part of the embossing is "1843").

I thought of Cooperman because at one time I had one that was near perfect - conical, unpainted, unmarked. I believe it was zinc or steel plated tin, but it was close, anyway, to what was needed. When I brought that up, people started talking about cylindrical Coopermans, painted ones, synthetic fipple plugs, etc. I'm trying to sort it all out and gather all the necessary photos to give good advice to AWI (and F&I and Wo1812, I guess) reenactors seeking to play whistles.

This is outside my usual area of expertise (fifes), but since all the fifers know I also play whistle, they're looking at me to come up with the answers. It would be easiest if I could just say "Cooperman," but the waters have been muddied with variations sold by Cooperman. Hopefully I'll hear from Patsy in the next couple of days and get the rest of it straightened out.

jim_mc · Post by **jim_mc** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:25 am

Patsy Ellis wrote me a nice note, saying that they (Cooperman) are still making the conical, rolled metal whistle with the wooden plug. It's the only metal whistle they've ever made, and they do make them in-house. They make the wooden whistles in house as well.

She also said that it's in their long range plans to start making a "professional" model whistle. They're pretty busy right now getting geared up to make McDonagh model fifes, so that project has been pushed off a bit. Since they have taken over the McDonagh project from Wilson Woods, perhaps their professional model whistle will end up being something like the Wilson as well. In any case, she promises to keep me updated, as I will the rest of you.