Kerry Low D - Love it, but C# is flat

Akuma12 · Post by **Akuma12** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:12 am

Hi all, haven't posted in a while, so 'allo!

I just got my Kerry Low D in the mail last week, and it's a great whistle, but I've been having problems with the C# being very flat compared to the rest of the notes. I checked it with an electronic tuner and it's registers as a somewhat sharp C natural rather than a C#, even when I blow rather hard. All of the other notes are consistent with each other and are in tune after adjusting the fipple (it's tuneable). I emailed Phil and he suggested blowing harder or warming the whistle up, but I've tried both to no avail. Thought I'd ask the great and wonderful whistlers here if they had any possible fixes before I emailed Phil again. Thanks much in advance!

"Aching fingers" Jim

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:31 am

You say tunable...
In my experience it's only tunable flatter than A=440Hz.
How much do you pull out the head?

Also, the tube takes longer to warm up than with an all-alloy whistle.
How long do you play it before you whip out the 'lectronic pacemaker thingie?

edited for basic spelling...

Akuma12 · Post by **Akuma12** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:42 am

The tuning action is pretty good...all of the other notes (besides C#) are very close to in tune when the fipple is about 3/4 down, so there's a little room to go sharp if need be. I think I'd been playing on it all day, but I might try warming it up more tonight and try again. However, wouldn't that cause all of the notes to shift? The only one I'm having problems with is the C#. I dunno...I'll give it a shot tonight and see how it goes. Thanks!!

Jim

Jens_Hoppe · Post by **Jens_Hoppe** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:33 am

If all else fails, you could take a file to the top of the first hole, enlarging it a bit...

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:00 am

Sure Jens, but shouldn't we first advise to lend the whistle to a more experienced low whistler somewhere near Jim's?

As for a radical tweak--Jerry Freeman, what do you think?

Azalin · Post by **Azalin** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:48 am

If I were you Jim, I'd buy an Overton, I really think your whistle has a problem and I wouldnt bother with it. Maybe also return it to Phil and get a new one?

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:52 am

I had the same problem with a Chieftain. I made the top finger hole bigger and the problem went away. Gotta love the dremel tool.

I ended up giving the whistle away.

Blackbeer · Post by **Blackbeer** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:37 am

I`d want to know what fingering your using before I drew any conclusions.

Tom

serpent · Post by **serpent** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:45 am

If you don't want to ship the whistle back, and the tuning of it is too far off to fix by closing the slide, then I'd say Jessie's suggestion is a good one. I don't think I'd use a Dremel, as they work kind of fast, and you have to have considerable experience and a steady hand to not (a) remove too much, and (b) not jump out and carve up the rest of the whistle!

If you do decide to go with the Dremel or a flex-shaft tool, be sure the whistle is securely clamped, and use both hands to guide the cutter.

Your best bet, IMO, is to use a round mill basmati file, or a chainsaw file with the bare end chopped off, and proceed carefully. First, get the whistle in tune as much as possible! Don't just open up the hole - file toward the fipple to raise the pitch. If it looks like the hole is getting too elongated, you can experiment with widening it a bit, but use that electronic tuner every fraction of an inch, and if the adjacent hole starts shifting pitch, it's time to stop.

From my standpoint as a maker, I really much prefer for people to send a whistle back for rework or replacement if it's out of tune, and I'd be willing to bet that Phil would prefer that, too. It's not good to have out-of-tune whistles with your name on 'em, floating around!

I think I'd give the maker a chance to make it right for you.
Cheers,

serpent

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 11:12 am

I used a small (though coarse) sanding bit on the dremel tool, not a cutter. You need a steady hand, but it's not so fast and unmanageable. Much easier and simpler than those tools you described that I've never heard of.

glauber · Post by **glauber** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:32 pm

Yes, tools with names like "basmati file" don't inspire much confidence.

Better the Germanic efficience of a Dremel sander... I'd never dream of using either, though. Send it back to its Maker!

I've kept files on Basmatis, and i know somebody here wanted to add a "pissed-off list" to the tools available on this site, but i've never heard of a basmati file outside Serp's posts. I love the name, though.

Zubivka · Post by **Zubivka** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:40 pm

I keep agreeing with Blackbeer--first make sure it's not you, and not the bleeping hardware, and I suggest taking some experienced advice with the bleeping* tube in hands, note by hear-say.

THEN, think of the more radical measures.

* Thanks, Trisha--handy.

Royce · Post by **Royce** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:24 pm

Azalin wrote:If I were you Jim, I'd buy an Overton, I really think your whistle has a problem and I wouldnt bother with it. Maybe also return it to Phil and get a new one?

Had an Overton. Had the very first Overton. I frankly like a whistle with a low D and a low E instead. That's why I bought a Kerry.

Royce

Royce · Post by **Royce** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 4:40 pm

Akuma12 wrote:The tuning action is pretty good...all of the other notes (besides C#) are very close to in tune when the fipple is about 3/4 down, so there's a little room to go sharp if need be. I think I'd been playing on it all day, but I might try warming it up more tonight and try again. However, wouldn't that cause all of the notes to shift? The only one I'm having problems with is the C#. I dunno...I'll give it a shot tonight and see how it goes. Thanks!!

Jim

It causes all the notes to shift but proportionately more the closer to the fipple. Thus C# would be dramatically sharpened, and low D would be modestly sharpened.

Forget sending it back. Forget anyone else's advise. If you have some space to go sharp of A 440 with head movement, then all you need to do is file the top of C until it's sharp enough. But mind you, it should be about 5 cents or a bit more flat of your chromatic tuner to actually be "in tune." You may have to blow it into pitch anyway, but it's so funny listening to whistle wankers cry about C# when pipers don't often have any control over the same problem and the same people go around talking about how great this or that piper is and this or that chanter is, when the instrument is fundamentally wonky on both C# and Cnat. Blow around it. That's real life.

Then you may even want to get yourself a grinder or bandsaw and cut off about 1/8" of the mouthpiece end off the tube. Smooth it all down and deburr it, then roughen up the seal area so some teflon tape will stick to the aluminum, and put a thin layer, about two wraps on, smooth it down and sneak the head back over it, turning in one direction (the direction that tightens the tape wrap) untill it's smoothed out the seal underneath. That will give you some extra "going sharp" room to play with boxes and fiddlers and banjo twangers to beat you to the session and cranked it up a little tight that night.

Even if you don't cut the end off, you ought to replace the ridiculous single wrap of dental floss that pretends to be a seal with a wider seal of teflon.

If that's too much work for you, again, go wank a 400.00 whistle, mail it back and forth and back and forth while the maker pretends to actually do anything to it for you, and get out of Irish Traditional music because it's always been more a craft than an art anyway. Or go pick up an oboe or something guys. Really.

He's supposed to have changed head design or something too this year or recently and he's moved holes around too, I think he sells a cheater's finger layout version for tiny tootlers who don't know how to hold a low whistle properly and that may also be a big part of your problem, because the holes are moved closer than they should be and evened out so the ill informed can attempt to arch their little pinkies up and put their fingertips over the holes recorder style. God knows what that does to intonation. In either case, you ended up with a C# too far south or too small and either way the correction is either or both moving the head closer to the hole or filing the top if the hole closer to the head.

Royce

StevePower · Post by **StevePower** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 5:13 pm

Royce wrote:Had an Overton. Had the very first Overton.

And I always thought that it was Finbar Fury who had the very first Overton. Just goes to show how wrong we can be.

Steve