Ok....I visit this site more than I care to mention...reading, reading...going to links...and links....printing off music...listening....etc., etc. I EVEN DREAM ABOUT PLAYING THE WHISTLE!!!! Ok...I am obsessed. Also have a wish list of more whistles I want to buy. Sigh.....
So many whistles, so little money...
Ok...my questions:
I have been playing for less than a month. I'm working on my ornamentation...but it just doesn't have the punch that I hear on sound clips or my cd's. I think I may be playing them too slow. What can I do to help me speed up my cuts, taps and rolls???????
Second question: Why buy different whistles in different keys? Are the fingerings different for different notes? You guys that play them must be Einsteins then...cuz I am still shuffling about with my own fingers on my D whistle.
Thank you for all your help and encouragement!!! Next week I am on vacation...and I will be stopping in Madison Wisconsin and Milwaukee, hoping to find a session or two to attend. Also...if anyone is from that area, let me know of any sessions you may know about.
Whistling in my dreams,
Nancymae
More questions...from a newbie...an obsessed newbie
Nancymae, the basis for different keys is that you DON'T have to learn different fingerings. Learn a tune in D on a D whistle...pick up a C whistle and play it...poof, you've transposed it to C. Pick up an A whistle....now you're playing in A.....SAME FINGERINGS.
We buy them for a few reasons. Maybe the guitarist learned a tune in A, and it has a lot of G#s so its a pain to half-hole....learn the tune on a D whistle, then get an A and its transposed.
Next reason...different whistles give different feels...different keys are easier to listen to, or make a certain tune sound 'right'. We do not leave by D alone. I simply like the sound of C better....easier to listen to, and just a tad mellower. ALSO, if I practice on a lower key, because it takes more air requirements, when I move to a D I seem to have more air available....kind of like lifting a 20 lb weight often enough that a 15 lb weight feels easy.
some recordings are in these different keys, and if we want to play along, you have to get a whistle in the same key.
Last reason. We have disposable income and want something different.
We buy them for a few reasons. Maybe the guitarist learned a tune in A, and it has a lot of G#s so its a pain to half-hole....learn the tune on a D whistle, then get an A and its transposed.
Next reason...different whistles give different feels...different keys are easier to listen to, or make a certain tune sound 'right'. We do not leave by D alone. I simply like the sound of C better....easier to listen to, and just a tad mellower. ALSO, if I practice on a lower key, because it takes more air requirements, when I move to a D I seem to have more air available....kind of like lifting a 20 lb weight often enough that a 15 lb weight feels easy.
some recordings are in these different keys, and if we want to play along, you have to get a whistle in the same key.
Last reason. We have disposable income and want something different.
Remember, you didn't get the tiger so it would do what you wanted. You got the tiger to see what it wanted to do. -- Colin McEnroe
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Redwolf
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As far as the ornamentation goes, give it time. Learn a tune straight first...don't even worry about ornaments until you can play the tune comfortably at speed. If you like, you can practice various ornaments separately at half speed, so you can get them nice and crisp, but don't try to add them to a tune until you're really comfortable with the tune. Brother Steve's site, at http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/brosteve/ , does a great job of breaking ornaments into manageable parts for learners
Also, remember that you don't HAVE to ornament the tune in the same way a certain player does, or use the ornaments written in whatever tune book you use. Do enough listening to get a feel for the genre, and then start adding ornaments where YOU feel they'll best work in the tune. I find that certain ornaments just suggest themselves in certain places (and I think most whistlers find they have certain ornaments they tend to favor). Some players use lots of ornament; some prefer a much more "bare-bones" style. Develop your own style within the tradition, and for each tune you play.
Mostly, give yourself time. Granted that the whistle is a pretty easy instrument to pick up the basics on, but it can take many years to master all the subtleties. Focus on doing a lot of listening and especially on enjoying your playing, and the rest will come with time.
Redwolf
Also, remember that you don't HAVE to ornament the tune in the same way a certain player does, or use the ornaments written in whatever tune book you use. Do enough listening to get a feel for the genre, and then start adding ornaments where YOU feel they'll best work in the tune. I find that certain ornaments just suggest themselves in certain places (and I think most whistlers find they have certain ornaments they tend to favor). Some players use lots of ornament; some prefer a much more "bare-bones" style. Develop your own style within the tradition, and for each tune you play.
Mostly, give yourself time. Granted that the whistle is a pretty easy instrument to pick up the basics on, but it can take many years to master all the subtleties. Focus on doing a lot of listening and especially on enjoying your playing, and the rest will come with time.
Redwolf
...agus déanfaidh mé do mholadh ar an gcruit a Dhia, a Dhia liom!
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nancymae
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Thank you Tygress and Redwolf.
Tygress: With the various keys...are you saying that all the holes covered on a D whistle and a C whistle are D? Just trying to figure things out!! Thanks for your reply...I am looking forward to listening to differences in the different keys of whistles. There are soo many!! And...from another post....some are very helpful in fights!!
Redwolf: Thank you for your reply...Yes...I am working with Brother Steve's site..and I am trying to mimic his renditions of songs, clips on the various ornamentations. My fingers just don't seem to be fast enough...so I will keep on truckin..and tryin. (showing my age here!!) I will stop putting so much pressure on myself..and enjoy playing slowly.....I guess the speed and ornamentation will come with practice.
Thank you both!!!
Nancy
Tygress: With the various keys...are you saying that all the holes covered on a D whistle and a C whistle are D? Just trying to figure things out!! Thanks for your reply...I am looking forward to listening to differences in the different keys of whistles. There are soo many!! And...from another post....some are very helpful in fights!!
Redwolf: Thank you for your reply...Yes...I am working with Brother Steve's site..and I am trying to mimic his renditions of songs, clips on the various ornamentations. My fingers just don't seem to be fast enough...so I will keep on truckin..and tryin. (showing my age here!!) I will stop putting so much pressure on myself..and enjoy playing slowly.....I guess the speed and ornamentation will come with practice.
Thank you both!!!
Nancy
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cj
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Redwolf and Tyghress have given you valuable advice. Rest assured that speed will come, it just takes time and practice. L.E. McCullough's tutor also does IMHO a great job of breaking down rolls, first slowly then at speed. Just keep with it.
As to why folks acquire whistles in different keys, I just like the different sounds! I love the alto keys of Bb and A, it gives me some variety when I want a mellower sound. The low whistles are beautiful and haunting, though I haven't worked on the fingering skill for them yet. They all have different voices, and the more you get into making music in general, the more you will love the voicings, as you might with singers.
As for being obsessed, we're right there with you!
As to why folks acquire whistles in different keys, I just like the different sounds! I love the alto keys of Bb and A, it gives me some variety when I want a mellower sound. The low whistles are beautiful and haunting, though I haven't worked on the fingering skill for them yet. They all have different voices, and the more you get into making music in general, the more you will love the voicings, as you might with singers.
As for being obsessed, we're right there with you!
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Redwolf
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All fingers down on a D whistle gives you a D note. All fingers down on a C whistle gives you a C note. All fingers down on an Eb whistle gives you Eb. And so on. When you play a straight scale (bottom to top) on a D whistle, you've played a D major scale. When you play a straight scale on a C whistle, you've played a C major scale. And so forth.nancymae wrote:Thank you Tygress and Redwolf.
Tygress: With the various keys...are you saying that all the holes covered on a D whistle and a C whistle are D? Just trying to figure things out!! Thanks for your reply...I am looking forward to listening to differences in the different keys of whistles. There are soo many!! And...from another post....some are very helpful in fights!!
What this means is, if you've learned a tune in D on your D whistle, and you want to play with someone who'd rather play it in C, all you have to do is pick up a C whistle and play it exactly as you would on your D whistle...the fingerings will be the same, but you will be playing in C, not D, with no special effort on your part.
As for the ornaments, it will take time, but they will come. I've been playing for years, and I'm just now getting to where long rolls sound right. When I started, I found simple trills (not a common Irish ornament, but one I learned early on and still like to use from time to time) and slurs easiest to master. Then, after a bit, I got single cuts...then, more gradually, double cuts. Others will have had a different experience, I'm sure...for some, a single cut comes almost intuitively, but slurs just don't seem to work for them right off. Be gentle with yourself . One day you'll be playing along and all of a sudden a particular ornament you've been struggling with will flick out without you even really thinking about it.
Redwolf
Last edited by Redwolf on Thu Sep 11, 2003 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
...agus déanfaidh mé do mholadh ar an gcruit a Dhia, a Dhia liom!
I'll chime in with the "learn it slow and straight - speed and ornamentation will come with time" crowd.
The biggest single problem for me was (and is) the urge to play too fast (this is especially strong after listening to someone like Mary Bergin!). One of the most valuable things for me about Bill Och's Clark Tinwhistle Tutor or the Walton's "Ireland's Best XXX" collections with the CD is listening to someone play the pieces *properly* - and at the proper speed.
In all too many cases it turned out that the very pieces I had the most trouble with were much easier - if played at the proper speed. And sounded better too. Remember that much of the repetoire - jigs, slides, reels, hornpipes, and set dances - is *DANCE* music, and should be played at a reasonable pace for dancing. Likewise, you should be able to MARCH to a march, not sprint!
Ditto for ornamentation - build a good foundation first, THEN think about adding the ornaments. I've been playing seriously for 10 months now, but am only now beginning to really work on ornaments. And they're still not my primary focus - I'd rank them fourth, after timing, clean fingering, and breath control. To me, until the other elements are in place ornamentation just sounds like missed fingering
But above all else, don't stress - take your time and enjoy the music.
The biggest single problem for me was (and is) the urge to play too fast (this is especially strong after listening to someone like Mary Bergin!). One of the most valuable things for me about Bill Och's Clark Tinwhistle Tutor or the Walton's "Ireland's Best XXX" collections with the CD is listening to someone play the pieces *properly* - and at the proper speed.
In all too many cases it turned out that the very pieces I had the most trouble with were much easier - if played at the proper speed. And sounded better too. Remember that much of the repetoire - jigs, slides, reels, hornpipes, and set dances - is *DANCE* music, and should be played at a reasonable pace for dancing. Likewise, you should be able to MARCH to a march, not sprint!
Ditto for ornamentation - build a good foundation first, THEN think about adding the ornaments. I've been playing seriously for 10 months now, but am only now beginning to really work on ornaments. And they're still not my primary focus - I'd rank them fourth, after timing, clean fingering, and breath control. To me, until the other elements are in place ornamentation just sounds like missed fingering
But above all else, don't stress - take your time and enjoy the music.
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nancymae
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Thank you All
I guess I am being too hard on myself...only been playing for a month and expecting too much!! I did try doing things slowly last night and it worked out so much better for me. I am going to pick up
L.E. McCullough's tutorial next payday and really listen. I have the MelBay "You can teach yourself the TinWhistle" Book...but they don't have many Irish songs with ornaments. I have most of the regulars down...so on to another book...and some great cd's. I LOVE Irish music...have ALWAYS wanted to learn to play it. In my frustration of not being able to afford a harp, I stumbled across the tinwhistle...and I think I am enjoying it even more than a harp!! (It certainly is easier to carry around!!)
Going on vacation as of Monday....and I'm taking my whistle with me...to practice while I am out in the woods painting!!!
Thanks all again....see you in a couple of weeks!!
Nancy
L.E. McCullough's tutorial next payday and really listen. I have the MelBay "You can teach yourself the TinWhistle" Book...but they don't have many Irish songs with ornaments. I have most of the regulars down...so on to another book...and some great cd's. I LOVE Irish music...have ALWAYS wanted to learn to play it. In my frustration of not being able to afford a harp, I stumbled across the tinwhistle...and I think I am enjoying it even more than a harp!! (It certainly is easier to carry around!!)
Going on vacation as of Monday....and I'm taking my whistle with me...to practice while I am out in the woods painting!!!
Thanks all again....see you in a couple of weeks!!
Nancy
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Guest
Re: Thank you All
You certainly want to get it done sooner. I think at speed you'd pass some interesting scenery.nancymae wrote:I guess I am being too hard on myself...only been playing for a month and expecting too much!! I did try doing things slowly last night and it worked out so much better for me. I am going to pick up
L.E. McCullough's tutorial next payday and really listen. I have the MelBay "You can teach yourself the TinWhistle" Book...but they don't have many Irish songs with ornaments. I have most of the regulars down...so on to another book...and some great cd's. I LOVE Irish music...have ALWAYS wanted to learn to play it. In my frustration of not being able to afford a harp, I stumbled across the tinwhistle...and I think I am enjoying it even more than a harp!! (It certainly is easier to carry around!!)
Going on vacation as of Monday....and I'm taking my whistle with me...to practice while I am out in the woods painting!!!
Thanks all again....see you in a couple of weeks!!
Nancy
I most liked stomping my feet when I began - in fact the tunes seem far less relevant! Stomp and stomp some more
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bjs
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Key Mysteries
You might find this helpful http://www.maths.warwick.ac.uk/~bjs/key-change.jpg
The chart shows the key of the whistle you are going to play at the top
The key the music is written in down the left hand side and the key that comes out in the middle. I find this useful when some sheet music I want o play is in some strange key - I can figure out how to transpose it using abctools.exe and which whistle to play it on.
But hey there's lots to go at in D and G first !
Brian
You might find this helpful http://www.maths.warwick.ac.uk/~bjs/key-change.jpg
The chart shows the key of the whistle you are going to play at the top
The key the music is written in down the left hand side and the key that comes out in the middle. I find this useful when some sheet music I want o play is in some strange key - I can figure out how to transpose it using abctools.exe and which whistle to play it on.
But hey there's lots to go at in D and G first !
Brian
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Kar
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I've been playing for one and a half years and I STILL can't do much ornamentation. I also found that my problem seemed to be that I wasn't doing it quickly enough and it didn't sound right. But I found that playing the tune itself SLOWER and then trying the cut or tap (or whatever) right at the beginning of the next note worked for me. I was able to get the sound I wanted by slowing the tune but gradually increasing the speed of the cutting/tapping finger, if that makes sense.
After one month, I was barely struggling thru Amazing Grace, but I had never played any other instrument so the whole music thing was all new. Sounds like you're doing really well! Good luck!
After one month, I was barely struggling thru Amazing Grace, but I had never played any other instrument so the whole music thing was all new. Sounds like you're doing really well! Good luck!
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nancymae
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Kar--thanks for sharing your experience. Yes, learning music is a schooling in itself. I learned to read music in grade school while learning the clarinet....and I continued into adult hood when I got a chance to learn the guitar. (I played folk music...like John Denver and such). I haven't really played much lately...probably in about 4 years....and had the desire to learn the harp. After looking at the harp prices....I stumbed over to the tinwhistle. I had NO idea how inexpensive they were!!! And...the Celtic music that I love...has the tinwhistle right in front!! I was very happy with my choice. Now..I'm blowing away at least 1 hour each day. I will stop being so hard on myself...and just enjoy. I was just afraid that I was "not getting it".
Skh--I will probably keep your statement in my mind every time I play now....what a cute saying!!!
Thanks for all the support!!! You guys are truly awesome!!! One day...I would LOVE to go to my family's homeland...County Cork...Baltimore to be exact...and play in some sessions. (I am an O'Driscoll on my mother's side). That is my goal......
Thanks everyone!!
Nancy
Skh--I will probably keep your statement in my mind every time I play now....what a cute saying!!!
Thanks for all the support!!! You guys are truly awesome!!! One day...I would LOVE to go to my family's homeland...County Cork...Baltimore to be exact...and play in some sessions. (I am an O'Driscoll on my mother's side). That is my goal......
Thanks everyone!!
Nancy
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Jack
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Quote @ Kar
P.S. nancymae, have I seen you somewhere before?
I've been going at it since Februrararuary, and my ornamentation is still bare bones and very simple. But I don't care much, I'll give it another five or six years to develop. For now playing is fun, and I'm just trying to get my hands on as many whistles as possible, which is really what counts.I've been playing for one and a half years and I STILL can't do much ornamentation.
P.S. nancymae, have I seen you somewhere before?