I’m curious about something

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Re: I’m curious about something

Post by paddler »

Mr.Gumby wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 2:59 pm
Are there more than three generations?
There was a sort of a transition between second and later design. One with a 'bulge' (much like Generations have) I don't know if that version lasted long, they are rare and the one I have is pretty awful
Thanks for that! So that one with the bulge came after the second generation and before the current (4th?) generation?

Is that the one that people sometimes refer to as a Feadog MK 2.5? i.e., between MK 2 and MK 3, with MK 3 being the current generation?

Is there a standardized terminology for these?
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Re: I’m curious about something

Post by paddler »

David Cooper wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 3:25 pm It sounds as if there's an opportunity for someone to 3D print replacement heads for a lot of whistles to bring them up to a high standard - the metal tubes and holes in should be fine as there's less that can go wrong there. Alternatively, if 3D printed heads vary too much (perhaps because some parts need reshaping after manufacture), it should be possible to print windway parts separately from the rest of the head so that the buyer can adjust the position before gluing it in permanently after finding the best place and angle relative to the sharp edge it's being aimed at, and making them separately means a better finish to the component parts than if you try to make the whole head in one go. There really isn't a lot you can get wrong with that edge or with the windway if they're made in an appropriate way - it's all about how they're placed relative to each other, and if you have significant variability in the manufacturing process, you need variability in the subsequent adjustments of their relative positions to make them work properly. The buyer is the best person to do that work as it takes time to get it right, and time is money.
I had a similar thought. Although I'm not sure if you can get sufficient accuracy with 3D printing, or in the final assembly for that matter. These whistle heads are very sensitive to quite small variations in dimensions. For example, I was just trying to take some window measurements from various whistles (and various generations of the same whistle), and dimensional changes on the order of less than 0.2 mm seem to have quite a profound effect. Ensuring the final accuracy seems to be where the true cost is, in that the cost of the work to refine and quality check each whistle can far exceed the cost of the whistle.
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Re: I’m curious about something

Post by trill »

paddler wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 6:05 pm . . . less than 0.2 mm seem to have quite a profound effect. . .
Having made a few, my impression is:

"one wrong stroke of the file can spell disaster".

(especially with PVC)

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Re: I’m curious about something

Post by Mr.Gumby »

Is there a standardized terminology for these?
There isn't really. The 'Mark I etc' is something some people here started using but I don't think it is used anywhere outside this forum. That aside, the terminology is fatally flawed by omitting one iteration and then in hindsight squeazing it in as '2.5'. But it is handy enough for rough and ready/day to day quick reference here so not worth fussing too much about.
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Tell us something.: I'm about to have a go at making wooden flutes based on a quena - I want to experiment with changing the hole sizes and locations to make one that's more comfortable to play. I just received an auger through the post today, and there are blown-down trees in the garden waiting to be repurposed, so I'll try to make a start on my first prototype at the weekend.

Re: I’m curious about something

Post by David Cooper »

paddler wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 6:05 pmThese whistle heads are very sensitive to quite small variations in dimensions. For example, I was just trying to take some window measurements from various whistles (and various generations of the same whistle), and dimensional changes on the order of less than 0.2 mm seem to have quite a profound effect.
It's also difficult to judge the best position because you have to make a compromise between higher quality low notes and easier high second octave notes. I'm now thinking about making the windway user-adjustable so that they can set it up the way they like it best for the kind of music they play. There could be interchangeable windways to get different widths, heights and different narrowing rates as you go along the windway. (I get a stronger, more focused jet of air out of a windway by having the floor-to-roof height reduce as it goes towards the ramp, but I don't know how much narrowing is optimal as it takes so long to make new prototypes). The expense of making such a system could be cancelled out by the cost saving in having to test each instrument carefully when fitting them: it might use three adjustment screws with one controlling windway-exit-to-ramp distance and the other two controlling windway height at that end and further back (for angle adjustment).

But maybe customers would be happy to use blu-tack in a simpler system where you just pack some under the windway and then move it fore and aft and press it down or pull it up until the best sound's obtained, then optionally lock it in place more firmly with a small amount of glue/epoxy (in such a way that it can be removed if necessary) to ensure it never slips during performance. The blu-tack wouldn't be visible in use, but would make it user-serviceable, and enable windway replacement for trying out different designs. To keep the costs low, and the manufacturing fast and minimal, I'm leaning towards the blu-tack solution - the stuff lasts for decades and is easy to replace.
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Re: I’m curious about something

Post by Moof »

paddler wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 1:46 pm Are there more than three generations?
Not according to the company's website...

https://feadog.ie/about/

...but I think there may have been a transition model floating around between II and III.
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Re: I’m curious about something

Post by paddler »

Moof wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2025 5:55 pm
paddler wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 1:46 pm Are there more than three generations?
Not according to the company's website...

https://feadog.ie/about/

...but I think there may have been a transition model floating around between II and III.
Thanks for the link! That explains where the MK I, MK II and MK III terminology comes from ... it is used right there on the companies website! Who would have guessed to look there?

So, given that they omit to mention the intermediate model with the bump, that Mr Gumby showed, and that it occurred before MK III came out and after MK II, I guess it makes sense that people refer to that as MK II.5 or MK 2.5.

I guess we could add some alphabetic letters to mix of Roman numerals and numeric decimal places if we really wanted to complicate things further. :moreevil:
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Re: I’m curious about something

Post by The Lurking Fear »

I should add that I bought a couple Mark I (circa 1980) from a member last year (I think). The windway was juuuust slightly higher than mine,2 of which I purchased in 1980. So I guess that would make a MarkI I/2 designation. Or something.

My father was a crack machinist,but all I have are his micrometers. So don't ask me to take measurements. Sorry.

I think they play just slightly louder than mine.Very slightly. Original owner blu-tacked them,so that may make the difference.
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Re: I’m curious about something

Post by Moof »

I've noticed this apparent difference too, but don't have a way of measuring it.

My own Mk 1 was bought in the first week of July 1980 – I can date it because a relative had just died and I got it to play a couple of tunes in his memory. I don't know the history of the other Mk 1, which I bought from an eBay seller.

The windway height on mine appears to be fractionally lower than the eBay whistle. However, it's possible my eyes are being misled by the difference in colour. The 1980 one was very sharp, and dunking the head in hot water to melt the glue made the colour of the plastic lighter. The tuning on the eBay one is pretty much spot on, so I haven't needed to move the head.

I also think the eBay whistle is fractionally louder. They both have the lovely rounded tone of old Feadógs, but the eBay one seems a bit more robust.

All a bit subjective though. :D They're both lovely whistles.
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Re: I’m curious about something

Post by pancelticpiper »

Wow I come back and the thread has gone down the Feadog rabbit-hole!

I will say that as far as I know there are two kinds of "Mark One" Feadog.

My first one, which is the best one, is darker green plastic (left). There's a reason it has all the teeth-marks!

Later I bought another one with the lighter green plastic (centre).

When the first kind came out, and when they changed colour, I have no idea.

The right-hand one doesn't play up to the standards set by the earlier ones.

I'll call them MkI ausf.A, MkI ausf.B, and MkII.

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Re: I’m curious about something

Post by david_h »

Oh dear. I thought I had an 'original' but mine looks like the B version. I still love it though.

Have either or both of yours, if they catch the light right, got radiating ripples a bit like a fingerprint on the sides?
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Re: I’m curious about something

Post by paddler »

david_h wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2025 10:11 am Oh dear. I thought I had an 'original' but mine looks like the B version. I still love it though.
I think my MK1 is the B version too. Aside from the color difference it seems that the very end of the beak is more chamfered at the edges on the A version than the B version, and the angle on the high point sharper. It looks like a slightly different mold not just a different material.

And by the way, pancelticpiper, I think the poor playing one on the right is a MK3 (current version) not a MKII, for what thats worth.
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Re: I’m curious about something

Post by Moof »

Yeah, I also think the third one's a Mk III. The head of the Mk II is similar to the Mk I, but without the vertical chamfers. It's also narrower.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/018zt3wf ... nxfx7&dl=0

My Mk II plays better than the Mk IIIs, but it's not as pleasing on the ear as the Mk I.
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Re: I’m curious about something

Post by pancelticpiper »

Yes I see what you mean, the right-hand one in my photo comes all the way down straight on either side of the windway.

I see that the MkII still has a bit of outward flare towards the bottom.

Here they are from an angle

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and just the two MKI's

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Re: I’m curious about something

Post by david_h »

Does the right-hand Mk1 have the bottom of the windway exit sloped back into the hollow, with the LH one having it on the plane of the windway top?
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