Goldie low D

The Ultimate On-Line Whistle Community. If you find one more ultimater, let us know.
bruce.b
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:23 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I’m a whistle, fiddle and tenor guitar player. Mostly low D, mostly Irish trad, but I’ll try any fiddle tune on whistle.

Re: Goldie low D

Post by bruce.b »

I’m eleven days in with the goldie, and today was the first time I felt frustrated with it. I’ve been playing my MK for twenty to thirty minutes, then switching to the Goldie for another thirty or so minutes. After fifteen or twenty minutes I put the Goldie down amd went back to the MK. It’s still much more fun to play the MK, and the result is so much better. I will give it a while longer amd attempt to not get frustrated.
Narzog
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:21 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Can play several instruments at an unimpressive level. Currently most interested in whistling with a side of acoustic guitar.

Re: Goldie low D

Post by Narzog »

pancelticpiper wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:27 am
Narzog wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:28 am
...I can play the MK so much more cleanly. I've actually found some videos on youtube of players much better than me having the same minor issues on Goldies. They aren't that noticeable but if you look for them you can usually hear them.
Now this has peaked my interest! Having played MK Low Ds professionally for a few years, and now a Goldie Low D, I would like to find out more about what factor is it that you're talking about.

Could you post some YouTube clips that demonstrate what you mean?
Sure, I have one in mind especially that I found the other day. He's an excellent player, and the recording is good. But its completely plagued with these little sharp sounds between notes. some people wont notice or hear them, but to me it drives me nuts. I dont get these sounds with my MK. My MK low F can make them but its to a much more minimal degree that I dont worry about them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSyWn6JUYJI
Roland of Gilead
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2022 10:33 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I make ceramic instruments called Ocarinas for a living but am also very fond of playing whistle and accordion for Irish traditional music
Contact:

Re: Goldie low D

Post by Roland of Gilead »

Narzog wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:32 pm
pancelticpiper wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:27 am
Narzog wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:28 am
...I can play the MK so much more cleanly. I've actually found some videos on youtube of players much better than me having the same minor issues on Goldies. They aren't that noticeable but if you look for them you can usually hear them.
Now this has peaked my interest! Having played MK Low Ds professionally for a few years, and now a Goldie Low D, I would like to find out more about what factor is it that you're talking about.

Could you post some YouTube clips that demonstrate what you mean?
Sure, I have one in mind especially that I found the other day. He's an excellent player, and the recording is good. But its completely plagued with these little sharp sounds between notes. some people wont notice or hear them, but to me it drives me nuts. I dont get these sounds with my MK. My MK low F can make them but its to a much more minimal degree that I dont worry about them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSyWn6JUYJI
Oh do you mean the sort of high frequency metallic chiff that occurs at the very start of the note? Some folks are certainly divided on how they get on with that kind of chiff. In some context i dont mind it and indeed it's very useful for a pieces tonal character, but I also find myself being overloaded by such sounds if I think about it for too long. I don't mind a 'dry' or 'windy' chiff quite as much, personally.
BKWeid
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:15 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I really enjoy the information and experience from the members on this forum. I've learned so much from the long time members about ITM, flutes, and whistles in general. I also enjoy the humor and culture. Instrument reviews have been helpful and the posts on embouchure are priceless. As I generally don't get out to sessions, the information from this board is my only connection at times to the music.
Location: Utah

Re: Goldie low D

Post by BKWeid »

Great discussion.


In reference to “sharp sounds between notes”, would it be notes that are being cut upon attack that you’re hearing? Or is it something quite different?
Narzog
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:21 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Can play several instruments at an unimpressive level. Currently most interested in whistling with a side of acoustic guitar.

Re: Goldie low D

Post by Narzog »

Roland of Gilead wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:55 pm Oh do you mean the sort of high frequency metallic chiff that occurs at the very start of the note? Some folks are certainly divided on how they get on with that kind of chiff. In some context i dont mind it and indeed it's very useful for a pieces tonal character, but I also find myself being overloaded by such sounds if I think about it for too long. I don't mind a 'dry' or 'windy' chiff quite as much, personally.
Ya I think so. There's different tiers of it. Because you can poorly cover a hole and get a bad sharp squeak. But you can also get part of that sharp squeak just by cutting a note, cuttings with the wrong hole, or in cases liek this, even just blowing a note at the start. So at what point is it an issue and what point is it fine? I'm not sure. But the sound bugs me because I associate it with being a bad thing I'm supposed to not do (like when it happens from leaking or poor fingering). But when it happens a little just from starting a note, maybe its an intended characteristic.
BKWeid wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:53 pm Great discussion.


In reference to “sharp sounds between notes”, would it be notes that are being cut upon attack that you’re hearing? Or is it something quite different?
I think my reply right above this one to Roland pseudo answers this. But the video I linked shows the 'sharp sounds' when they aren't extreme. They can be on cuts, but they can also just be from sounding a note, or some finger transitions. Where right as the note sounds, it lets out this sharp sound, just for a small fraction of a second. But if you listen for it, its there. And to me is really unpleasant, especially once I notice it. and because that, I have a hard time liking any whistle that makes these sounds that I cant easily avoid them. Because a lot of the time the 'bad versions' of this sound are caused by user error. Like leaking a hole, or poor finger technique getting a sharp sound during a transition. So if I'm getting these sounds in any way, to me my playing feels bad. But in videos liek the one I linked, his playing isn't bad. but he's still getting the sounds, just to a lesser degree. Which makes me want to just play a whistle I wont get them at all.

This topic though does make me think that a lot more people get these sounds than I thought, and that they just don't see them as a problem.
bruce.b
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:23 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I’m a whistle, fiddle and tenor guitar player. Mostly low D, mostly Irish trad, but I’ll try any fiddle tune on whistle.

Re: Goldie low D

Post by bruce.b »

I only hear chiff at the start of the notes. Some whistles have more chiff than others, the Goldie has some, which I hear in this recording and when I play mine. My MKs have very little chiff. I’m neutral on this, I like how it sounds if it’s not too overwhelming, Goldies are a good example. It’s a more trad whistle sound. Some of the cheap high whistles many people love have more chiff than I prefer. MKs are my favorite sounding whistles, with a powerful, fat, rich tone and not a lot of chiff. Goldies and MKs sound strikingly different when I’m playing them, but less so on recordings.
User avatar
pancelticpiper
Posts: 5298
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:25 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Playing Scottish and Irish music in California for 45 years.
These days many discussions are migrating to Facebook but I prefer the online chat forum format.
Location: WV to the OC

Re: Goldie low D

Post by pancelticpiper »

After listening to that video I have to admit that I don't know what you're referring to.

What stands out to me is that he's tonguing the attacks of some of the notes very crisply, which is a technique that I'm sure he could do on any whistle he played.

I'm sure he could choose not to do it on any whistle he played, but he obviously prefers that extremely sharp attack. At his level, he could play from that sharply tongued attack to full legato and anywhere in between, I'd wager.

My tongue just doesn't move that quickly! So my tonguing is a bit more sluggish.
Richard Cook
c1980 Quinn uilleann pipes
1945 Starck Highland pipes
Goldie Low D whistle
BKWeid
Posts: 194
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:15 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I really enjoy the information and experience from the members on this forum. I've learned so much from the long time members about ITM, flutes, and whistles in general. I also enjoy the humor and culture. Instrument reviews have been helpful and the posts on embouchure are priceless. As I generally don't get out to sessions, the information from this board is my only connection at times to the music.
Location: Utah

Re: Goldie low D

Post by BKWeid »

Yes, tonguing. I’ve worked on not being sluggish—working toward being more crisp when tonguing. Yet, I struggle. Hearing Brian Finnigan hit triplets in lightning speed makes me wonder how he’s accomplishing the feat. tonguing on attack of a note is much easier.
User avatar
sfmans
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:41 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I've been a whistle player for over 40 years now, which is a sobering thought. I got started on a battered old Generation D and, well, just never stopped really!

Current gigs are The Powderkegs border morris, the concert band Trebuchet with our music theatre show The Mill Ballads www.themillballads.com, and Welsh dance band Caffl.
Location: High Peak, Derbyshire
Contact:

Re: Goldie low D

Post by sfmans »

BKWeid wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 4:31 pm Yes, tonguing. I’ve worked on not being sluggish—working toward being more crisp when tonguing. Yet, I struggle. Hearing Brian Finnigan hit triplets in lightning speed makes me wonder how he’s accomplishing the feat. tonguing on attack of a note is much easier.
Well tonguing is a whole topic in itself and not without its controversies; but rather than going with a hard T every time, try te-re-de for triplets (as in say those phrases and internalise the different way the tongue moves for those three sounds, then apply that to your airstream).

Apologies to anyone who is triggered by the mention of recorders, but the splendid Sarah Jeffrey (Team Recorder) channel has some great YouTube videos devoted to recorder tonguing that gives lots of food for thought for application to the whistle -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T58BhGsbTjs Double tonguing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnPB1_y7wRM
Double and triple tonguing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T58BhGsbTjs A 'clean' sound, with some info about tonguing
bruce.b
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:23 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I’m a whistle, fiddle and tenor guitar player. Mostly low D, mostly Irish trad, but I’ll try any fiddle tune on whistle.

Re: Goldie low D

Post by bruce.b »

I use triple tonguing. Ta-ka-ta is how I think of it. Front of the tongue, back of the tongue, front again. Pretty much all players tongue on some notes, it a question of where amd how often.
Narzog
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2020 9:21 pm
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: Can play several instruments at an unimpressive level. Currently most interested in whistling with a side of acoustic guitar.

Re: Goldie low D

Post by Narzog »

pancelticpiper wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 1:29 pm After listening to that video I have to admit that I don't know what you're referring to.

What stands out to me is that he's tonguing the attacks of some of the notes very crisply, which is a technique that I'm sure he could do on any whistle he played.

I'm sure he could choose not to do it on any whistle he played, but he obviously prefers that extremely sharp attack. At his level, he could play from that sharply tongued attack to full legato and anywhere in between, I'd wager.

My tongue just doesn't move that quickly! So my tonguing is a bit more sluggish.
Hmm I'm wondering if the sound I'm talking about it high enough pitch that not everyone can hear it. Or its possible that people are just used to it and find it a normal whistle sound.

But him tonging a lot makes sense why the sound is happening on most notes. When I had my Goldie it was hard to not have the sharp wind breaking sound at the start of blowing. Which hes making on most notes. Which makes sense now. And makes his playing even more impressive.
bruce.b
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:23 am
antispam: No
Please enter the next number in sequence: 8
Tell us something.: I’m a whistle, fiddle and tenor guitar player. Mostly low D, mostly Irish trad, but I’ll try any fiddle tune on whistle.

Re: Goldie low D

Post by bruce.b »

It’s possible, like you stated, that I can’t hear it of it’s high pitched. My hearing is good for being 68, but my kids can sometimes hear a high pitched sound that I can’t. There is definitely more chiff to the tone of my Goldie low D than to my MK low D.
Post Reply